honcho > honcha

Thu Feb 1 15:06:07 UTC 2007

At 9:29 AM -0500 2/1/07, Amy West wrote:
>A bit more discussion on the topic. I find Charlie Doyle's response
>interesting as it shows two different senses of "folk etymology." I
>guess the first sense, the non-linguist sense, could also be called
>"false etymology" like the false origin stories passed around about
>"posh" and "tip" and "blackmail" (oh, that last one drives me nuts).
>
>---Amy

--and "picnic", which is even worse.  I agree, and I've suggested
(e.g. in my American Speech paper from 2004, "Spitten image:
Etymythology and Fluid Dynamics") distinguishing the the first
category as etymythologies (essentially etymological urban legends),
as opposed to first-order or folk/false etymologies, which involve a
(relatively) simple invention of transparency.

Larry Horn

>
>>
>>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:29:06 -0500
>>From:    Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>
>>Hey, Amy:  That is, indeed, a "fundamental" question--but neither
>>"stupid" nor "obvious"! And your second paragraph eloquently
>>responds to your own question.
>>
>>We folklorists sometimes cringe when we hear the word "folk" bandied
>>about by the lay public or scholars in other disciplines.
>>
>>As it happens, I'll be giving a talk this spring (at the Western
>>States Folklore Society conference) that bears on this subject.  At
>>the risk of tedium, I'm going to copy the first 70% of my abstract
>>here, just below my name.
>>
>>--Charlie
>>
>><< Folklorists have often assumed that "dialect" can be regarded as
>>a category of folklore.  Most dialect features, however--even though
>>they are certainly oral and traditional, and they exhibit some
>>degree of variation--have no standing as folklore per se, because
>>folklore texts must be consciously produced artifacts, which a
>>member of a folk group will intentionally and optionally "perform."
>>Dialect, on the other hand, is simply the way somebody talks,
>>unselfconsciously for the most part.
>>
>>The aspects of speech that hold interest for folklorists, then, are
>>not a group's normal phonological, morphological, syntactic, and
>>lexical behaviors but rather its traditional, albeit personally
>>crafted, verbal expressions--oral artifacts (if that word is not
>>oxymoronic as applied to folklore). One category of such artifacts
>>is folk etymology, though not in the sense that linguists use the
>>term--the historical process by which the structure or use of a word
>>has been affected by an erroneous perception of the word's
>>origin--but rather in the sense of a performed explanation, believed
>>or disbelieved, of how a word originated, and (especially) legends,
>>riddling questions, and jokes about the origin. >>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>
>>---- Original message ----
>>
>>>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:22:28 -0500
>>>From: Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>>
>>>Again, I fear I am asking a stupid, fundamental, obvious question
>>>that is firmly grounded in my deep ignorance:
>>>
>>>Can we understand folk etymology as yet another instance of the
>>>constant reanalysis of the language that speakers perform on the
>>>language?
>>>
>>>If not, what's the current linguistic understanding of what "folk
>>>etymology" is?
>>>
>>>---Amy West
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:29:25 -0500
>>From:    "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>
>>>There is a cute example of a coinage based on a folk etymology in the
>>>Doonesbury strip for 30 Jan. 07.
>>>
>>>[Two female engineering students are sitting in front of a robot
>>>which they cannot get to work as intended] We're engineering
>>>*honchas*, and the thing just sits there mocking us!
>>>
>>>The word _honchas_ appears to be a derivative of _honcho_, based on
>>>the assumption that the word is a borrowing from Spanish; the a -> o
>>>substitution would then be in accord with the regular pattern in
>>>Spanish gender marking.  The only trouble is _honcho_ comes from
>>>Japanese. The OED provides this citation from an unimpeachable
>>>source: "1955 Amer. Speech XXX. 118 Honcho. 1. n. A man in charge.
>>>(This is a Japanese word translated roughly as 'Chief officer',
>>>brought back from Japan by fliers stationed there during the
>>>occupation and during the Korean fighting...)." ....
>>
>>Cute. A number of Web examples appear. I also find (much sparser) "hobo" >
>>"hoba" and "bozo" > "boza". Also "Anglo" > "Angla".
>>
>>I think it's probably more-or-less right to ascribe this "honcha"
>>development to folk etymology, although I think it's also possible to make
>>one word behave like another without making any assumption about etymology.
>>
>>The word "honcho", here meaning "straw boss" (essentially "foreman", I
>>think), appeared in the mainstream US press at least as early as September
>>1945 (according to my glance at the newspapers). It looks like it should be
>>Japanese "hanchou" and I don't see anybody disagreeing (except for that AS
>>author way back when, who was puzzled about the origin).
>>
>>I find by Web-search a street in San Diego named "El Honcho Place". Is this
>>"honcho" the same one? Or is there some 'real' Spanish word "honcho"? You
>>can find lots of examples of "honcho" used in Spanish text on-line but it
>>seems to be the English word usually.
>>
>>-- Doug Wilson
>>
>>
>>--
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>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:42:07 -0800
>>From:    "Michael T. Wescoat" <mtwescoat at UCDAVIS.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>
>>Amy,
>>
>>Thank you for your question:
>>
>>>  Can we understand folk etymology as yet another instance of the
>>>  constant reanalysis of the language that speakers perform on the
>>>  language?
>>
>>I think the answer is yes.  Furthermore, the _honchas_ case is
>>interesting because the reanalysis of _honcho_ as a Spanish loan word
>>facilitated the creation of a new English word _honcha_, which would
>>not have arisen in the absence of this folk etymology.  In other
>>words, folk etymology is influencing language change.
>>
>>Michael T. Wescoat
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:58:34 -0800
>>From:    "Michael T. Wescoat" <mtwescoat at UCDAVIS.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>
>>I take your point.
>>
>>>  A number of Web examples appear. I also find (much sparser) "hobo" >
>>>  "hoba" and "bozo" > "boza". Also "Anglo" > "Angla".
>>
>>I suppose English speakers do apply Spanish-like o~a gender marking
>>to o-final words that are not assumed to be Spanish loans.
>>
>>Michael T. Wescoat
>>
>>------------------------------
>
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