Q: "by will and doom" (1672)

[Joel S. Berson]

Aha, and thanks.  I take the sense, then, as "by choice and
judgement/decision" of the collector.

As to obscurity, I think I will send it to the OED anyway, and let
the 17th century experts winnow it in or out.  (It must exist
somewhere else, but I have not yet had a chance to round up the usual
suspects ... I mean, databases.)

Joel

At 1/26/2007 05:14 PM, you wrote:
>         My guess is that it refers to the decision and judgment of the
>collector.  Here's what Black's Law Dictionary says about "doom":
>
>doom, n. Hist. 1. A statute or law. 2. A judgment; esp., a sentence in a
>criminal matter. 3. Justice; fairness. 4. A trial; the process of
>adjudicating.
>"The word 'doom' is, perhaps, best translated as 'judgment.' It survived
>in occasional use until the fourteenth century. Wyclif's translation of
>the Bible, rendering the verse, 'For with what judgment ye judge, ye
>shall be judged,' as 'For in what dome ye demen, ye schuln be demed.'
>The distinction which we make to-day between the legislator, who makes
>the law, and the judge, who interprets, declares and applies it, was not
>known to our Anglo-Saxon ancestors. The dooms were judgments in the
>sense that they were declarations of the law of the people." W.J.V.
>Windeyer, Lectures on Legal History 1 (2d ed. 1949).
>
>
>         A reference to this judgment as a "doom" would have been archaic
>in the 17th century.  "Will and doom" strikes me as a bit too obscure to
>deserve its own entry in the OED.
>
>
>John Baker
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
>Of Joel S. Berson
>Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:47 PM
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Q: "by will and doom" (1672)
>
>I don't know whether it might mean "freely or by compulsion.".  What I
>infer is that, if the owner or consignee of the goods cannot produce
>evidence of its value, or the valuation appears false, then the
>collector may assign a value that he determines (in order to collect
>duties).  (Of course, the litigious New Englander then was likely to sue
>the collector if he thought the valuation was unreasonable!)
>
>But my question is more -- is this something that ought to be in the
>OED?  Can "we" find more than just the handful of cites that Google
>turns up -- perhaps in legal works of the 17th-18th century?  Such as
>Admiralty Court records, when the litigious New Englander did sue the
>Collector?
>
>Joel
>
>At 1/26/2007 04:32 PM, you wrote:
> >Seems to me the phrase would mean something like "freely or by
> >compulsion."  Would that make sense?
> >
> >--Charlie
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >---- Original message ----
> >
> > >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:08:36 -0500
> > >From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > >Subject: Q:  "by will and doom" (1672)
> > >
> > >What about the phrase "by will and doom"?  It is not in OED3, but
> > appears to have been used with some understood meaning (but mysterious
>
> > to me!) in legal documents in Massachusetts.  (The phrase shows up,
> > but only a small number of times, via Google.)
> > >
> > >If any Invoyce or Bill of Parcels shall be falsified, concealed,
> > or not produced ... it shall be lawful for the Treasurer or Collector
> > ... to Rate all such Goods, or the Owner, or other Agent for the same,
>
> > by Will and Doom, according to their best discretion.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Joel
> >
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