"Don't shit where you eat"

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Mon Jul 9 21:40:36 UTC 2007 

My experience is essentially the same as yours, Jon. My experience has
also been that what you read is more trustworthy than conclusions that
you reach on your own. Back in the day, I concluded, on the basis of
evidence gathered from news stories, a TIME cover featuring the late
Charles Malik, then premier of Lebanon, and friends named "George,"
"Georgette," and "Louis," that all Lebanese Catholics (the Maronite
Church is a branch of the Catholic Church) had Western first names.
Some time later, I worked with a Lebanese colleague whose first name
was "Jamil." Given that his name was Arabic, one day I asked Jamil
several questions about Islam. Jamil became quite agitated and claimed
that he had no idea what the answers to my questions were, not  even
what the proper Arabic pronunciation of Muhammad was. The next day,
and every day thereafter, Jamil came to work wearing a gold crucifix
around his neck. I'm a slow learner, since I had years earlier assumed
that an Egyptian classmate at UC Davis was a Muslim, when he was a
Coptic Christian.

I've now noted a major difference: in my experience, true Muslims are
like Jehovah's Witnesses; they want to convert you. Christians mind
their own business. Turks are a notable exception to this
generalization. Turks sometimes poke fun at Islam, they speak English
very well - which is not to imply that Arab Muslims don't -  and they
party their asses off. Nevertheless, they're surprised when this third
characteristic sometimes causes them to be mistaken for black
Americans.

-Wilson

-Wilson

On 7/9/07, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hey, Wilson, I never heard of that hand thing in NYC except as an Arab custom.
>
>   And I had to read a book to learn that.
>
>   JL
>
>
>
> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> See there! Ain't I done told y'all a whole lot, segregation really
> worked? I have never heard tell before this moment of any customary
> use of the left hand among the colored. In the particular case that I
> cite, the white guy was an Italian-American from Philadelphia named
> deRosa and the black guy, named Jefferson, was from Oceanside, CA,
> then an Army town connected to the now-defunct Fort Ord. His father
> was also a GI. Nevertheless, Jeff was something of a punk. The insult
> hurt his feelings so badly that he came back to the barracks crying.
> He didn't get much sympathy from the rest of us, because we'd warned
> his black ass not to go to the party from the BE-gin-nin'. There was
> no telling what might happen to a coupl'a three blacks among a crowd
> of drunken Northern GI's. On the other hand, Southerners who, when
> sober, gave us the hate stare - cf. _Black Like Me_ - tended to become
> "We're all Southerners together" when drunk.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On 7/7/07, Dennis Preston
> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Dennis Preston
>
> > Subject: Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Wilson,
> >
> > This is an interesting joke; a common piece of racist folk stuff
> > where I grew up, around Louisville KY, (apparently told with some
> > degree of belief) was that black people shook hands with their left
> > hands customarily. Is (was) this widespread?
> >
> > dInIs
> >
> >
> >
> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >-----------------------
> > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > >Poster: Wilson Gray
> > >Subject: Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Ii agree with what you say WRT to Muslim custom. I read about it in a
> > >book, about fifty years ago. ;-) But wouldn't that also be true of
> > >Americans? Wouldn't you switch hands or put down what you were
> > >holding, in order to be able to shake hands with another American with
> > >your right hand? Or maybe I'm being hypersensitive.
> > >
> > >White guy offers right hand to black guy:
> > >
> > >"Happy New Year!"
> > >
> > >Black guy extends right hand.
> > >
> > >White guy withdraws right hand and offers left hand:
> > >
> > >"Oops! I'm sorry! I use my *left* hand to shake with niggers."
> > >
> > >-Wilson
> > >
> > >On 7/6/07, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>-----------------------
> > >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> > >> Poster: Beverly Flanigan
> > >> Subject: Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> > >>
> > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >> At 04:46 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote:
> > >> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >> >-----------------------
> > >> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > >> >Poster: Barbara Need
> > >> >Subject: Re: "Don't shit where you eat"
> > >> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> >At 23:11 -0400 03/7/07, sagehen wrote:
> > >> > > >Sorry for the crude title.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Has anyone searched to find out what the earliest version of this must
> > >> > >>have been? I would doubt that it was that phrasing.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Anyone suggest what the original sentiment might have been?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Sam Clements
> > >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> > >I remember reading about the Essenes or some similar group -- associated
> > >> > >with the Dead Sea Scrolls, perhaps? -- that had strictures concerning the
> > >> > >roles of the two hands: the one that went into the communal pot
> > >>at mealtime
> > >> > >would never be the one that wiped one's bottom. Whether the
> > >>left was the
> > >> > >"clean" and the right the "unclean" I don't remember, but I believe the
> > >> > >roles were immutable.
> > >> > >AM
> > >> >
> > >> >I remember a month-long Sunday school sequence on the Arab world
> > >> >(mid-70s, Unitarian Church) in which we were instructed to eat with
> > >> >the right hand (no utensils!) because the left hand was traditionally
> > >> >used to wipe oneself.
> > >> >
> > >> >Barbara
> > >> >
> > >> >Barbara Need
> > >> >UChicago
> > >> >
> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >> Still true for Muslims. If I'm holding something in my right hand and
> > >> unthinkingly shake hands with a Muslim student with my left hand, I
> > >> immediately know I've committed a faux pas from the look on the face of my
> > >> student.
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> > >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > >-----
> > > -Sam'l Clemens
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------
> > >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dennis R. Preston
> > University Distinguished Professor
> > Department of English
> > Morrill Hall 15-C
> > Michigan State University
> > East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Sam'l Clemens
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                              -Sam'l Clemens

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