crapper 1910...and more

[Wilson Gray]

FWIW (I didn't forget the "W", this time!), in the Saint Louis of my
childhood and youth, at least, ca.1940-1960, "croppie," "tossel," and
"liloc" instead of "crappie," "tassel," and "lilac," plus others that
may come to mind later, were the usual pronunciations.

-Wilson

On 7/16/07, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: crapper 1910...and more
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Have we discussed the competing pronunciations of the noun "crappie" (the fish)?
>
> The _OED_ gives only [kraepI], though it records the variant spelling "croppie."  _AHD New College Ed,_(1981) likewise gives only [kraepI]. In contrast, [krapI] is the only pronunciation recorded in _Webster's 9th New Collegiate_ 1983 (_Webster's New Collegiate_, 1956, gave BOTH pronunciations.).
>
> --Charlie
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>
> >Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:08:56 -0700
> >From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >Subject: Re: crapper 1910...and more
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> >
> >Thanks, Doug. Regardless of the fate of the form "cropper," it's hard to imagine crapulosity-linked "crapper" surviving the popularity of crap-linked "crapper."
> >
> >  Now I wonder whether "crapulous" has any bearing on the development of the earlier "crapper."
> >
> >  JL
> >
> >"Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET> wrote:
> >  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: "Douglas G. Wilson"
> >Subject: Re: crapper 1910...and more
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >As JL has already intuited, "crapper" has a variant "cropper" (or vice versa).
> >
> >At Google Books, I searched for <> and for <>
> >from 1700 to 1850, and found several examples of "cropper" = "shot
> >[of liquor]" or so.
> >
> >Here's one example, a quotation from the Dublin U. Magazine, 1844, in
> >a poem about schnapps:
> >
> ><>
> >
> >A noggin is/was usually more-or-less a quarter-pint, I think, which
> >would make the cropper something like an ounce ... like a "shot", sure enough.
> >
> >Tell me the origin of "noggin" and I will try to tell you the origin
> >of "cropper".
> >
> >I don't see this "crapper"/"cropper" in the dictionaries. Its
> >[apparent] disappearance may not be because of "crapper" =
> >"latrine"/"toilet", since "cropper" survived OK in other senses.
> >
> >-- Doug Wilson
> >
> >
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All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
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