"until" vs "before" or "to"

[Dennis Preston]

Damn! I wish I had a complete recall history of my conscious and
subconscious behaviors like y'all guys do.

I think I quite drinkin gin about 32 or 33 (age not year). Coulda be conscious.

dInIs



>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I, on the other hand, used to say "to" and "till," but, in the fall of
>1959, switched to "of." This change was made quite consciously, unlike
>more and more of what I do, these days. My wife has astounded me with
>her quotations of some of my favorite catch phrases, of which I have
>no conscious knowledge. E.g., "I'm freezing my ass off!" Who knew? I
>never use that kind of language!
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 7/18/07, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>  Subject:      Re: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  I used to say "of" but at some point switched to "to" and "till."
>>The change was made quite unconsciously, like more and more of what
>>I do these days.
>>
>>    JL
>>
>>  Susan Rosine <basenjiluvr at MSN.COM> wrote:
>>    ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: Susan Rosine
>>  Subject: Re: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  My mother is from Alabama, my father from Indiana. I was born in Colorado
>>  but grew up in Washington state. I say "10 til 6" and "quarter til 6". The
>>  "til" seems to be to be Southern, while "of" seems very Northern or East
>>  Coast. Just my two cents worth.
>>
>>
>>  Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:46:11 -0400
>>  From: sagehen
>>  Subject: Re: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>>
>>  >Did the announcer say "until" or "till"? "Till" is more common, and the
>>  >standard term in the Midland (and South, I believe). It goes way back,
>>  >noted in early travel journals as of Scotch-Irish origin. Dictionaries
>>  >cite it as a separate lexical item, if I'm not mistaken, more related to
>>  >"to" than to "until." (I don't have my sources here at home, but I've
>>  >cited this in my Encyclopedia of Appalachia entry of 2006, and Michael
>>  >Montgomery has discussed it long before that.) As a common daily usage, it
>>  >goes deep: I always tell my students that I, a Northerner born and bred,
>>  >will always say "quarter to," but my Indiana/Ohio son will forever say
>>  >"quarter till." The third option is usually "quarter of"; I've never heard
>>  >"quarter before" (or 15 minutes before). This seems to me simply
>>  >dialectal, not semantic. I forget where you live, Sage Hen?
>>  >
>>  >Beverly Flanigan
>>  >Ohio University
>>  >
>>  >At 08:02 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote:
>>  >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>-----------------------
>>  >>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  >>Poster: sagehen
>>  >>Subject: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>>  >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>-
>>  >>
>>  >>(a) It is now 25 minutes until 6.
>>  >>(b) It is now 25 minutes before 6.
>>  >>(c) It is now 25 minutes to 6.
>>  >> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  >>What's the difference?
>>  >>
>>  >> (a) feels wrong to me, unless sthg important is going to happen at 6.
>>  >>
>>  >> (b) & (c) as simple announcements of the time seem right.
>>  >>
>>  >>Is this just me, or do others have the same sense? I would probably never
>>  >>have thought of this if one of our local radio announcers didn't use the
>>  >>"until" form regularly, catching my attention. Most of them say
>>  >>"before."
>  > >>AM
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  This particular announcer definitely says "until." The station is in
>>  Canton NY, but its personnel come from all over the country.
>>  I myself would be more likely to say "25 of 6" or "quarter of" than "
>>  till" or "to" or "before." I grew up in Lincoln NE.
>>  AM
>>
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>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>
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--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA

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