For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d

[Tom Zurinskas]

Thanks Paul,  I'm glad to be corrected, but to me there is a big difference
between a "d" and a flapped Spanish "r".   The flapped r, which sounds a lot
like a d, has the tongue tip pointed upword and slightly curled back with a
very short plosive duration.  It's loose enough to be multiply flapped that
way.  The sounds I hear for "ity" are ~d replacing ~t sounds, not r-flaps.

In truespel book 1 I've listened to many languages and indentified many
r-flaps (usually for the letter r in a word and sounds like a d).  But I've
never heard it in English.  Perhaps you could point out some words we could
hear it in m-w.com.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
See truespel.com - and the 4  truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
authorhouse.com.





>From: Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:20:03 -0400
>
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>Subject:      Re: For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Yes, we American English speakers do use tongue flaps, Tom.  A [d]
>would have longer duration, for one--there's no way you can make a
>consonant of such short duration without a ballistic movement of the
>tongue--and that is a tap/flap.  I correct my students on this all
>the time.
>
>Paul Johnston
>On Jun 12, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------
> >
> > M-w.com lets us use our own ears.  In m-w.com “pretty” and “city” are
> > pronounced (as I hear them) ~pridee ~sidee.  I believe that is very
> > typical.
> >   But m-w.com says they are pronounced in their notation 'pri-tE
> > 'si-tE.
> > There is a disconnect.  I would say the speaker has it right in
> > terms of
> > usual USA dialect.  (Not to find fault with m-w.com, which is an
> > awesome
> > free resource).
> >
> > So is it really a ~d or something else?  Try listening to “steady
> > city”,
> > “muddy city”.  Both are ~d as I hear them.  The tongue is making
> > the same
> > moves for the “d” as the “t”.  No tongue flaps.  Just a ~d.
> > English-only-speaking Americans don't even use tongue flaps, and
> > this is an
> > American speaker.
> >
> > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> > See truespel.com - and the 4  truespel books plus "Occasional
> > Poems" at
> > authorhouse.com.
> >
> >
> >> From: Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
> >> Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d
> >> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:27:38 -0700
> >>
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster:       Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM>
> >> Subject:      Re: For words ending in "-ity" is it ~t or ~d
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >>
> >> It is NOT a "Spanish flap kind of d". It is an AmE sound, which
> >> untrained Americans often hear as a "d" sound. Earlier,
> >> suggestions were
> >> made that you take some basic courses in linguistics. Here is another
> >> great case where such classes would be of service. BB
> >>
> >> Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >>> Note: I hear a true ~d and not a "Spanish r flap kind of d".
> >>>
> >>
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