Big Onion (Re: The Onion on U.K. slang) (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Mullins, Bill AMRDEC]

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

It may not be in the NYT or the Brooklyn Eagle, but that doesn't mean
that
the nickname doesn't exist.  [and how did you search the Brooklyn Eagle?
When I gave it "the big onion" as a search string, it reduced the string
to
"onion" because "big" and "the" are common words, and returned over
10000 hits --
no way to go through them all and make sure that none of them are about
"the big onion"]
Your website post says: "The walking tour company
is about the only place you'll see "Big Onion." "  Not so . . .

David Maurer, "More Underworld Place Names"  _American Speech_
 Vol. 17, No. 1 (Feb., 1942), pp. 75-76
"Mr. Joseph Blackwell, Jr., of the Virginia State Prison, who with Mr.
Clinton Sanders of the
same institution has done extensive work with both criminal and
non-criminal slang, . . .
has kindly supplied me with two variants for New York City, The Big
Smear and The Big
Onion, from his own list of criminal place-names."

This citation doesn't predate your 1920's references to The Big Apple,
but given that the
source describes a poorly-documented area of speech [criminal slang], I
doubt it makes sense to
definitively say that "The Big Apple" predates "The Big Onion" -- only
that as far as the current
printed record is researched, citations for "The Big Apple" predate
those for "The Big Onion".

More Cites:

Luc Sante's 1991 book _Low Life:  Lures and Snares of New York_ refers
to "the Big Onion"
as tramp slang for NY, but it looks like he is just regurgitating
Maurer's citation above.

"The Great Bagel Bowl" By MICHAEL K. SOLOW, _New York Times_; Jul 2,
1978; pg. LI18
"At the end of the bagel bacchanal, with only the memory of crumbs
remaining, my father
announced -- as usual -- the final words:  "Having tasted the New York
onion bagel,
I'll have to say New York is still the Big Onion."  [note:  The NYT
store offers a photo
of the Jewish Lower East Side, ca. 1910, with the note:  "A
predominately Jewish area,
this section of New York was often known as the Big Onion."  Perhaps the
origin is from the
Jewish immigrant community?]


> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society
> [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Popik
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:42 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Big Onion (Re: The Onion on U.K. slang)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Barry Popik <bapopik at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Big Onion (Re: The Onion on U.K. slang)
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
>
> "The Onion" is located in "the Big Apple." For those who
> missed it, here's scholar Stephon Marbury on "the Big Onion."
> My website got seven hits from this link -- I made about one cent.
> ...
> ...
>
> http://gothamist.com/2007/11/15/stephon_marbury.php
> November 15, 2007
> Stephon Marbury Loves 'The Big Onion'
> NYC & Co better update their marketing materials, because New
> York City has a new name...The Big Onion. At least that's
> what Stephon Marbury is calling New York these days. While
> professing his love of yesterday's NY Post cover (we can't
> argue with him), Marbury e-mailed The Post, "I must say the
> front page of The Post has to be the funniest thing I have
> ever seen in a long time. I'm sitting on the plane laughing.
> You have to love New York. The big onion will either make you
> laugh or make you cry." Uh huh. Maybe his giant
> basketball-player-sized fingers couldn't type correctly on his phone.
> Nevermind that typing o-n-i-o-n is nowhere near a-p-p-l-e.
> One thing's for sure, Marbury has as many layers as an onion.
>
> While in town on his 1-day absence from the Knicks, Marbury
> paid his respects to the family of his former coach Robert
> Williams, after learning that he passed away Tuesday.
> Williams, known as Mr. Lou, was a mentor and coach to
> countless kids, including Marbury and Sebastian Telfair in
> Coney Island who played basketball on the court near his
> apartment building in Surfside Gardens. One former player
> said that Mr. Lou was "the backbone of this whole community."
> Marbury was able to view Williams' body, where he was, by one
> account, "crying like a baby." A memorial service for
> Williams will be held tomorrow in Coney Island.
>
> (...)
>
> COMMENTS
>
> Also the Big Onion is listed as a nickname for Chicago.. and
> this guy searched the NYT and found no historical mention of
> Big Onion.
>
> http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/big_on
> ion_recent_post_big_apple_nickname/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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