"Hunc over de" clubs, NY 1736?

[Wilson Gray]

On 10/3/07, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "Hunc over de" clubs, NY 1736?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >-----
> >"Folk-Custom and Folk-Belief in North Carolina," by N. C. Hoke.
> >_Journal of American Folklore_  Vol. 5, No. 17 (Apr. 1892), p. 118
> >"I spy" is more commonly played under the name of "Hunk Over-Dee." I
> >had supposed this a collection of arbitrary sounds, until Mr. Culin's
> >article gave ground for the belief that the name comes from a Scotch
> >playground. "Over the Dee" was probably the _Ultima Thule_ of a home,
> >or hunk, to these Scotch children.
> >-----
>
> There was something in N&Q too, but I can see only the despicable snippet.
>
> This "I spy" was apparently what would now be called "hide and seek".

FWIW, I've always known "I spy" and "hide and (go) seek" to be
coevally the same game, but with different "calls": I spy / Hicker(?)
more(?) rye(?) ..." (unfortunately, I no longer remember the rest of
this call and I have no idea as to whether the call beyond "I spy"
consisted of actual words that I was simply too young to understand in
the context of the call or whether it was a mere wordless chant) v.
"Last night / Night before ..." On the basis of everything that I've
ever read that mentions these games, starting from the first grade, I
have no reason to think that the equating of these two games is
peculiarly a black thang, hough it could be (sigh!) an age thing.

-Wilson

> "Hunk" = "home"/"base" in such games, apparently, = Dutch "honk". It
> appears in DARE.
>
> So maybe the "Hunc over De" club name is basically Dutch (or Low
> German), and refers to games of hide-and-seek?
>
> Maybe some of the savants can easily identify the relevant Dutch
> expression, but I surely can't. I know "over" = "over", and maybe
> "de" = "die" = "that" ....
>
> Otherwise, one might post an inquiry on the Lowlands list. [Last time
> I did, though, I got only an incomprehensible reply in some Low
> German dialect from a joker.]
>
> -- Doug Wilson
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                              -Sam'l Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org