beet soup

[Sarah Lang]

In my experience, the Ukrainian pronunciation of щ is usually shch;
whereas the Russian is on the sh/shsh side of things (somewhat closer
to ш.)

S.

On Sep 14, 2007, at 7:59 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: beet soup
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>
> At 8:08 AM -0300 9/14/07, David A. Daniel wrote:
>> One of my Russian profs very early on had a succinct explanation
>> of the shch
>> pronunciation. He said it was the same as the sh-ch in fresh
>> cherries. Very
>> easy to relate to.
>> DAD
>
> For those of us of a certain age, it's also the same as the "shch" in
> Khrushchev, although I suppose I may be misremembering the variety of
> pronunciations that name may have been produced with by stateside
> reporters and politicians.
>
> LH
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Wilson Gray
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:25 PM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: beet soup
>> Isn't it the case that the Russo-Cyrillic letter transliterated as
>> "shch" [SC] is actually pronounced as "shhh" [S:]? At least, that's
>> the way that it was taught at the byvshaia Armeiskaia Shkola iazykov,
>> fifty years ago. Darya?
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On 9/13/07, RonButters at aol.com <RonButters at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  In a message dated 9/13/07 11:46:01 AM, preston at MSU.EDU writes:
>>>
>>>  I can't write cyrrilic here, I think, but I looked it up and
>>> 'beet soup'
>> is=20
>>>  phonetically [borStS] -- spelled with the symbols corresponding to
>> sounds=20
>>>  represented in English by "b" "o" "r" "sh" (as in English "mash"
>>> =3D --S)
>> an=
>>>  d "ch"=20
>>>  (as in English "match" =3D --tS).=20
>>>
>>>  Maybe we are just analyzing the final [tS] differently, i.e., an
>> affricate=20
>>>  consists of a stop + fricative. It is still "sibilant", n'est-ce
>>> pas?
>>>
>>>> Nope; no final sibilant in Russian, and in Polish is just ends in
>>>> three consonants=A0 - barszcz /rSC/.
>>>> =20
>>>> dInIs
>>>> =20
>>>> PS: Ron, good try for a non-Slav.
>>>> =20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>> complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
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