Semantic drift: "khaki"

Wed Sep 19 20:34:37 UTC 2007

OED surprisingly lacks "chino" as an adj., though I'm in agreement with Wilson that "chino" and "khaki" are more or less the same color, "chino" being closer to a very light gray - if I had to say.  Neither khaki nor chino, to me, can typically have any noticeable green in it. That would make it "greenish khaki," or whatever.

  OED's def. of "chino," n., indirectly supports the color ref.: "A cotton twill cloth, usu. khaki in colour." The primary ex. is from as late as 1943.

  JL

Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Wilson Gray
Subject: Re: Semantic drift: "khaki"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The color of the tan shirts worn with the old "Army green" woolen
class-A uniform, ca.1958-1968, was officially designated "suntan." To
the casual glance, it was clearly not the same color as khaki.
Nevertheless, it was permitted to wear the shirt from the khaki
uniform with the greens. I'm completely unfamiliar the terms "class B"
and "class C," but this doesn't mean that these were not official
terms. The Army-green uniform was rarely - so seldom that I've found
out that this was an official term only this week - referred to as
"class A," but the others were uniformly referred to as
"khakis" and as "fatigues" by the troops. There was also a Marine
Corps-like uniform known as "dress blues," but I've seen it only in
pictures, worn by officers and high-ranking NCO's on official
occasions. Info from Google seems to imply that the Army-green class-A
uniform is soon to be replaced by a new Army-blue class-A uniform
distinct from the (now-obsolete?) dress-blue uniform.

FWIW, "Khaki" and "chino" are the same color to me.

-Wilson

-Wilson

On 9/16/07, Dave Wilton wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Dave Wilton
> Subject: Re: Semantic drift: "khaki"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, I interpret this as a reference to the summer khaki (tan) uniform, not
> the green "Class A" uniform. Khakis were often worn with a tie and jacket
> ("blouse" in army parlance) and the cut would have been almost identical to
> the green uniform, differing only in color and weight of material. The use
> of "dress" is probably to distinguish it from the green fatigue uniform.
> Khakis could be worn when traveling, especially to and from Vietnam. Also,
> the Louisville incident doesn't give a date, but if it was in summer it
> reinforces the idea that this is the uniform he's describing.
>
> There's an image of the US Vietnam-era khaki uniform on this page:
> http://www.merhabaturkey.com/1BARTLEYMindex.html
>
> But while searched Google Images for that, I also ran across this, a Reuters
> photo in China Daily of a soldier in camouflage uniform described as wearing
> "khaki." Although, at least one of the colors appears to be khaki:
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2007-04/02/content_841908.htm
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Jonathan Lighter
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:29 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Semantic drift: "khaki"
>
> It's possible, Dave, but is the context right? Is it just a slip?:
>
> 2005 Larry Heinemann _Black Virgin Mountain_ (N.Y.: Doubleday) 13 [ref.
> to 1965-66]: In Louisville...Saturdays the hotel is packed with...GIs in
> ill-fitting dress khakis. _Ibid._ 47: That fall, at Fort Knox, my name comes
> down on the levy for Vietnam; I get orders and a month's home leave [to
> Chicago]; February. The morning I am to leave for San Francisco...
> I am packed and tricked out in my dress khakis when [my brother] arrives
> at the door.
>
> I would never second-guess Heinemann on something like this, but the use
> of "khakis" struck me.
>
> And Scot, AFAIK, when "khakis" refers to military uniforms,the ref. is
> always to the color, not the material. The Navy and Marines still have some
> true "khakis."
>
> JL
>
> Dave Wilton wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Dave Wilton
> Subject: Re: Semantic drift: "khaki"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
> IIRC, the US Army abandoned its tropical/summer khaki uniforms in the early
> 1980s, leaving only the olive-drab uniform. I would suspect that if the
> meaning shifted it would be after this date, at least in American usage.
>
> During the 60s and 70s there was a true US Army khaki uniform, which would
> have been worn in tropical Vietnam. Perhaps Heinemann is referring to the
> true khaki uniform and this is being misinterpreted.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Michael Quinion
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:43 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Semantic drift: "khaki"
>
> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
> > Just what color do people understand nowadays by "khaki"? All my life
> I've
> > subscribed to the def. of the OED: "dust-coloured; dull brownish yellow,
> > drab," a kind of light to medium beige.
> >
> > Recently, though, I've noticed writers using "khaki" to designate the
> > much darker brown, formerly used for U.S. Army uniforms (as in World
> > War I) and usually designated "olive drab." Now I find Vietnam veteran
> > Larry Heinemann (in _Black Virgin Mountain_) referring to the dark
> > "olive-green" Army "service uniform" of the '60s as "khakis." Surely
> > Heinemann knows better - or my memory is slipping.
>
> I noticed this some years ago and indeed used it as the lead-in to a piece
> about the slippery values of some colour names. See
>
> http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/colour.htm
>
> As I say there, to me khaki is sandy-brown. This was the colour of British
> Army uniforms in my extreme youth, just after WW2, when being "in khaki"
> meant being in the Army. An olive-green colour is what today's fashion
> writers mean by the word. It seems to have changed through the word being
> retained for the colour of army uniforms while the colour of the uniforms
> has changed.
>
>
> --
> Michael Quinion
> Editor, World Wide Words
> E-mail: wordseditor at worldwidewords.org
> Web: http://www.worldwidewords.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> FareChase.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Sam'l Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

---------------------------------
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV.  Watch previews, get listings, and more!

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org