Stoop in DARE

Tue Sep 25 13:24:34 UTC 2007

Nadia Pazolis-Gabriel wrote:
>"Where in the US is the word "stoop" popularly used to mean a porch?"

I remember "stoop ball" from the Bronck's in the 1940's.  (Definitely
proving it comes from the Dutch -- Except that Wikipedia claims Jonas
Bronck was a Swede!)*  I also remembered that there had been
something in the ADS-L archives, and found a few, including:

Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:17:26 -0400
From: Barnhart
Subject: "stoop" ball (1909)

MW11=1941, as stoop-ball

The boy, whose father, James Monmouth Purdy, is a process server in
the Jefferson Market Court, got home from Public School 93, at
Ninety-third Street and Amsterdam Avenue, early in the afternoon,
and, with some ten or a dozen other boys is the block, began to play
"stoop" ball in the street. Walter stood in the gutter, just off
Columbus Avenue, in fron of 101 West Ninety-fourth Street, throwing
the ball against the stoop steps, and catching it when it rebounded.
"Boy Killed By Automobile," The New York Times, May 12, 1909, p 1

and:

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:08:51 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Stoop Ball (1924); Escalator (1900); Revolving Door (1896);
Automobile (1883)

STOOP BALL OED has 1941.
15 June 1924, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM8:
Mr. Storey has listed a wide variety of today's diversions and near
the head of his list, in frequency, appear stoop ball, hopscotch,
bastketball (often with a lamp post for goal), fencing with sticks and tag.

At 9/25/2007 08:35 AM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>Is a "stoop" really a porch? In Saint Louis, a "stoop" is a short set
>of usually-limestone steps in the front or wooden steps in the rear
>leading to an entryway in the front or directly to a door in the rear.
>The entryway is a space large enough for perhaps two to four people to
>stand. A "porch" is much larger and may extend across the entire front
>or rear of a house, with space for chairs and a swing or a glider or
>some such.

My understanding also, although I imagine stoop-ball would be less
exciting on wooden steps.  I think there has also been discussion on
ADS-L of whether a stoop could have a roof or must not, but I didn't
find that quickly and don't remember the conclusion.

*Another site has a different and more complicated tale:  It says his
"original name probably was Jens Mortensen Bronck".
"Jonas Bronck was a remarkable man. The son of a Danish Lutheran
pastor, he was born in Copenhagen but spent most of his youth in the
Faroe Islands, to which his father had been transferred. Later Jonas
became influential in shipping circles in Holland, and was able to
acquire ownership of a shipping vessel".

Joel

>-Wilson
>
>On 9/25/07, Barnhart <barnhart at highlands.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Barnhart <barnhart at HIGHLANDS.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: Stoop in DARE
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Dear Nadia,
> >
> > Welcome back.  Of course, DARE or Wentworth are obvious places to go.  I
> > looked in the World Book Dictionary at the etymology (You could use the
> > Barnbart Dictionary of Etymology, too, or Merriam Webster's Collegiate,
> > for that matter).  The source is Dutch _stoep_.  So, the probable origin
> > in spite of its widespread usage, is New Jersey and the Hudson and
> > Susquehanna valleys of New York.  Another place to keep in mind would be
> > the Dictionary of Americanisms (1952).
> >
> > Regards,
> > David
> >
> > barnhart at highlands.com
> > Lexik at highlands.com
> >
> >
> > American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> writes:
> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >-----------------------
> > >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >Poster:       Nadia Pazolis-Gabriel <nadpaz3 at GMAIL.COM>
> > >Subject:      Stoop in DARE
> > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> > >
> > >Dear all,
> > >
> > >A faithful reader of this wonderful listserv until last year, I got too
> > >busy
> > >with school and work and had to unscubscribe.
> > >Today, I'm back on the list to satisfy my curiosity!
> > >
> > >I am a graduate student in Library Science. In my Reference class, we are
> > >currently studying encyclopedias and dictionaries.
> > >The teacher asked us a tricky question about the regional use of a word:
> > >
> > >"Where in the US is the word "stoop" popularly used to mean a porch?"
> > >
> > >We students all had DARE in mind.
> > >Little did we know: There's no volume 5 yet - so, no way to look up the
> > >entry for "stoop" - and the entry at "porch" doesn't help much.
> > >
> > >My husband told me "Oh, in Buffalo we used stoop for porch!"
> > >
> > >Could someone tell us what DARE would say?
> > >
> > >Thank you!
> > >
> > >Nadia Gabriel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >**
> > >
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> > >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>
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