Stoop in DARE

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Tue Sep 25 14:53:09 UTC 2007 

My stars alive! I'd forgotten about that stoop ball! I used to play it
myself! The game plays okay against a wooden stoop, too, at least if
you use a tennis ball.

-Wilson

On 9/25/07, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Stoop in DARE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Nadia Pazolis-Gabriel wrote:
> >"Where in the US is the word "stoop" popularly used to mean a porch?"
>
> I remember "stoop ball" from the Bronck's in the 1940's.  (Definitely
> proving it comes from the Dutch -- Except that Wikipedia claims Jonas
> Bronck was a Swede!)*  I also remembered that there had been
> something in the ADS-L archives, and found a few, including:
>
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:17:26 -0400
> From: Barnhart
> Subject: "stoop" ball (1909)
>
> MW11=1941, as stoop-ball
>
> The boy, whose father, James Monmouth Purdy, is a process server in
> the Jefferson Market Court, got home from Public School 93, at
> Ninety-third Street and Amsterdam Avenue, early in the afternoon,
> and, with some ten or a dozen other boys is the block, began to play
> "stoop" ball in the street. Walter stood in the gutter, just off
> Columbus Avenue, in fron of 101 West Ninety-fourth Street, throwing
> the ball against the stoop steps, and catching it when it rebounded.
> "Boy Killed By Automobile," The New York Times, May 12, 1909, p 1
>
> and:
>
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:08:51 EDT
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Stoop Ball (1924); Escalator (1900); Revolving Door (1896);
> Automobile (1883)
>
> STOOP BALL OED has 1941.
> 15 June 1924, NEW YORK TIMES, pg. SM8:
> Mr. Storey has listed a wide variety of today's diversions and near
> the head of his list, in frequency, appear stoop ball, hopscotch,
> bastketball (often with a lamp post for goal), fencing with sticks and tag.
>
> At 9/25/2007 08:35 AM, Wilson Gray wrote:
> >Is a "stoop" really a porch? In Saint Louis, a "stoop" is a short set
> >of usually-limestone steps in the front or wooden steps in the rear
> >leading to an entryway in the front or directly to a door in the rear.
> >The entryway is a space large enough for perhaps two to four people to
> >stand. A "porch" is much larger and may extend across the entire front
> >or rear of a house, with space for chairs and a swing or a glider or
> >some such.
>
> My understanding also, although I imagine stoop-ball would be less
> exciting on wooden steps.  I think there has also been discussion on
> ADS-L of whether a stoop could have a roof or must not, but I didn't
> find that quickly and don't remember the conclusion.
>
> *Another site has a different and more complicated tale:  It says his
> "original name probably was Jens Mortensen Bronck".
> "Jonas Bronck was a remarkable man. The son of a Danish Lutheran
> pastor, he was born in Copenhagen but spent most of his youth in the
> Faroe Islands, to which his father had been transferred. Later Jonas
> became influential in shipping circles in Holland, and was able to
> acquire ownership of a shipping vessel".
>
> Joel
>
>
> >-Wilson
> >
> >On 9/25/07, Barnhart <barnhart at highlands.com> wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Barnhart <barnhart at HIGHLANDS.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: Stoop in DARE
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Dear Nadia,
> > >
> > > Welcome back.  Of course, DARE or Wentworth are obvious places to go.  I
> > > looked in the World Book Dictionary at the etymology (You could use the
> > > Barnbart Dictionary of Etymology, too, or Merriam Webster's Collegiate,
> > > for that matter).  The source is Dutch _stoep_.  So, the probable origin
> > > in spite of its widespread usage, is New Jersey and the Hudson and
> > > Susquehanna valleys of New York.  Another place to keep in mind would be
> > > the Dictionary of Americanisms (1952).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > David
> > >
> > > barnhart at highlands.com
> > > Lexik at highlands.com
> > >
> > >
> > > American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> writes:
> > > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >-----------------------
> > > >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > >Poster:       Nadia Pazolis-Gabriel <nadpaz3 at GMAIL.COM>
> > > >Subject:      Stoop in DARE
> > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------
> > > >
> > > >Dear all,
> > > >
> > > >A faithful reader of this wonderful listserv until last year, I got too
> > > >busy
> > > >with school and work and had to unscubscribe.
> > > >Today, I'm back on the list to satisfy my curiosity!
> > > >
> > > >I am a graduate student in Library Science. In my Reference class, we are
> > > >currently studying encyclopedias and dictionaries.
> > > >The teacher asked us a tricky question about the regional use of a word:
> > > >
> > > >"Where in the US is the word "stoop" popularly used to mean a porch?"
> > > >
> > > >We students all had DARE in mind.
> > > >Little did we know: There's no volume 5 yet - so, no way to look up the
> > > >entry for "stoop" - and the entry at "porch" doesn't help much.
> > > >
> > > >My husband told me "Oh, in Buffalo we used stoop for porch!"
> > > >
> > > >Could someone tell us what DARE would say?
> > > >
> > > >Thank you!
> > > >
> > > >Nadia Gabriel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >**
> > > >
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-----
> >                                               -Sam'l Clemens
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                              -Sam'l Clemens

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