Standard US English Dialect?

Sun Apr 13 17:29:44 UTC 2008

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Dennis Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>  Many recent restudies of NYC speech do not show any such change, and
>  the term Midland is at least as old as the first (1920s) US
>  Linguistic Atlas surveys.

We're talking about the perceptions of non-linguists here, aren't we?
The original question was looking into whether and why Japanese
learners of English think of "the middle class of New York City" as
being the most standard form of American English.  I mentioned that in
my experience, many Chinese have that idea too, and postulated a
theory about why that might be: capital = standard.  I know New York
is not the capital of the US -- it's the Capital of the World; or at
least in 1999/2000 the city was plastered with flags saying that.

Lighten up, dInIs, are you having a bad day, or what? ; )

I don't remember "Midland" being too popular a term among the masses
until that "What American Accent Are You" test that got big on the web
a year and a half ago.
http://gotoquiz.com/what_american_accent_do_you_have
http://www.youthink.com/quiz.cfm?action=go_detail&sub_action=take&obj_id=9827

Randy

>
>
>  dInIs
>
>  >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>  >-----------------------
>  >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>  >Poster:       LanDi Liu <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>  >Subject:      Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>  >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  >On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Dennis Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>  >
>  >>  Well, we know a great deal about middle class (and working class)
>  >>  pronunciation in New York City. William Labov's Social Stratification
>  >>  of English in New York City (CAL, 1966) would be the first place to
>  >>  look. The myth that different boroughs have different accents is hard
>  >>  to do away with; it stems largely from the fact that different social
>  >>  classes tend to live in different boroughs.
>  >
>  >In 1966, I would think that class and accent had a much greater
>  >relationship in NYC than now.
>  >
>  >>  "Midwestern" is not a dialect area of the US, but you can find the
>  >>  pronunciation of  various areas I guess people would call "Midwest"
>  >>  represented in the newer Labov, Ash, and Boberg Atlas of North
>  >>  American English (Mouton de Gruyter 2006).
>  >
>  >In his terms it would be "Midland", but I hadn't heard that term
>  >before his book came out.
>  >
>  >>  Washington DC is the capital of the US, not NYC.
>  >
>  >Ouch.  Whoops!  : )
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  dInIs
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>  >>  >-----------------------
>  >>  >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>  >>  >Poster:       LanDi Liu <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>  >>  >Subject:      Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>  >>  >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>  >
>  >>  >I've found that idea here in China a lot too.  Before I came to China
>  >>  >I had lived in NYC for several years, so when people ask me where I'm
>  >>  >from, usually I say New York, and then they think then that my accent
>  >>  >must be standard.  I think my accent is pretty standard, but that has
>  >>  >nothing to do with NYC.  Most people believe that the midwestern
>  >>  >accent is the most "standard", but I have never seen a full
>  >>  >description of it.  One of the things I plan on doing one of these
>  >>  >days is transcribing the speech of several midwestern newscasters to
>  >>  >see if I can formulate a good description of it.  Once I do, I'll let
>  >>  >everyone know, so they can rip it apart. : )
>  >>  >
>  >>  >As far as NYC middle class goes, that means very little as far as
>  >>  >accents go.  Because of the large amount of people that live in NYC
>  >>  >that weren't born there, and the fact that different boroughs in NYC
>  >>  >have different accents to begin with, and the fact that class and
>  >>  >accent aren't so easily correlated anymore, I don't think anyone could
>  >>  >say what a NYC middle class accent is.  So probably the people in
>  >>  >Japan and China (and elsewhere) think capital = standard.  Most people
>  >>  >think Beijing Chinese is standard, but that's a myth as well.
>  >>  >
>  >>  >Randy
>  >>  >
>  >>  >On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:58 AM, chris bennett
>  >><quiddity9 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  >>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>  >>  >>-----------------------
>  >>  >>   Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>  >>  >>   Poster:       chris bennett <quiddity9 at HOTMAIL.COM>
>  >>  >>   Subject:      Standard US English Dialect?
>  >>  >>
>  >>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>  >>
>  >>  >>   Hello,
>  >>  >>   My girlfriend is Japanese/American and believes standard US dialect =3D
>  >>  >>   is that of the middle class of New York City. She believes
>  >>this because =
>  >>  >>   =3D
>  >>  >>   many of her ESL learning friends have been told this and they
>  >>generally =
>  >>  >>   =3D
>  >>  >>   seek NYC tutors. She reminded me that Tokyo Japanese is the standard, =
>  >  > >>   =3D
>  >>  >>   which may lend support to her NYC idea.
>  >>  >>   =20
>  >>  >>   I've searched online for the answer and have had no luck. =3D
>  >>  >>   Personally, I was under the impression that midwestern
>  >>dialects were =3D
>  >>  >>   generally accepted as "standard" US English dialect. My grandfather =3D
>  >>  >>   worked for the Voice of America and was always impressed by
>  >>the foreign =
>  >>  >>   =3D
>  >>  >>   broadcasters (Russia's version of the VOA, etc.) who spoke with a =3D
>  >>  >>   perfect Ohio type dialect. I've also seen Deutsche Welle
>  >>newscasters =3D
>  >>  >>   with the Ohio dialect.
>  >>  >>   =20
>  >>  >>   Are you able to shed any light on the matter?
>  >>  >>   =20
>  >>  >>   Thanks much,
>  >>  >>   Christian Bennignus
>  >>  >>
>  >>  >>   ------------------------------------------------------------
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>  >>  >>
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  >--
>  >>  >Randy Alexander
>  >>  >Jilin City, China
>  >>  >
>  >>  >------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>  >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  --
>  >>  Dennis R. Preston
>  >>  University Distinguished Professor
>  >>  Department of English
>  >>  Morrill Hall 15-C
>  >>  Michigan State University
>  >>  East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>  >>
>  >>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >--
>  >Randy Alexander
>  >Jilin City, China
>  >
>  >------------------------------------------------------------
>  >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>  --
>  Dennis R. Preston
>  University Distinguished Professor
>  Department of English
>  Morrill Hall 15-C
>  Michigan State University
>  East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
Randy Alexander
Jilin City, China

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org