Standard US English Dialect?
Dennis Preston
preston at MSU.EDU
Sun Apr 13 18:12:21 UTC 2008
It seemed to me to slip into the world of facts with comments about
NYC class and the like. Yes, I'm sick a dog; perhaps the fact that
you were discussing perceptions only (although I still can't get that
from your comments about class in NYC) just got obliterated by some
of the stuff running out of my nose.
dInIs
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>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster: LanDi Liu <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Dennis Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>> Many recent restudies of NYC speech do not show any such change, and
>> the term Midland is at least as old as the first (1920s) US
>> Linguistic Atlas surveys.
>
>We're talking about the perceptions of non-linguists here, aren't we?
>The original question was looking into whether and why Japanese
>learners of English think of "the middle class of New York City" as
>being the most standard form of American English. I mentioned that in
>my experience, many Chinese have that idea too, and postulated a
>theory about why that might be: capital = standard. I know New York
>is not the capital of the US -- it's the Capital of the World; or at
>least in 1999/2000 the city was plastered with flags saying that.
>
>Lighten up, dInIs, are you having a bad day, or what? ; )
>
>I don't remember "Midland" being too popular a term among the masses
>until that "What American Accent Are You" test that got big on the web
>a year and a half ago.
>http://gotoquiz.com/what_american_accent_do_you_have
>http://www.youthink.com/quiz.cfm?action=go_detail&sub_action=take&obj_id=9827
>
>Randy
>
>>
>>
>> dInIs
>>
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>> >Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >Poster: LanDi Liu <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>> >Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Dennis Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well, we know a great deal about middle class (and working class)
>> >> pronunciation in New York City. William Labov's Social Stratification
>> >> of English in New York City (CAL, 1966) would be the first place to
>> >> look. The myth that different boroughs have different accents is hard
>> >> to do away with; it stems largely from the fact that different social
>> >> classes tend to live in different boroughs.
>> >
>> >In 1966, I would think that class and accent had a much greater
>> >relationship in NYC than now.
>> >
>> >> "Midwestern" is not a dialect area of the US, but you can find the
>> >> pronunciation of various areas I guess people would call "Midwest"
>> >> represented in the newer Labov, Ash, and Boberg Atlas of North
>> >> American English (Mouton de Gruyter 2006).
>> >
>> >In his terms it would be "Midland", but I hadn't heard that term
>> >before his book came out.
>> >
>> >> Washington DC is the capital of the US, not NYC.
>> >
>> >Ouch. Whoops! : )
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> dInIs
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >> >Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >Poster: LanDi Liu <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> >Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>> >>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >I've found that idea here in China a lot too. Before I came to China
>> >> >I had lived in NYC for several years, so when people ask me where I'm
>> >> >from, usually I say New York, and then they think then that my accent
>> >> >must be standard. I think my accent is pretty standard, but that has
> > >> >nothing to do with NYC. Most people believe that the midwestern
>> >> >accent is the most "standard", but I have never seen a full
> > >> >description of it. One of the things I plan on doing one of these
>> >> >days is transcribing the speech of several midwestern newscasters to
>> >> >see if I can formulate a good description of it. Once I do, I'll let
>> >> >everyone know, so they can rip it apart. : )
>> >> >
>> >> >As far as NYC middle class goes, that means very little as far as
>> >> >accents go. Because of the large amount of people that live in NYC
>> >> >that weren't born there, and the fact that different boroughs in NYC
>> >> >have different accents to begin with, and the fact that class and
>> >> >accent aren't so easily correlated anymore, I don't think anyone could
>> >> >say what a NYC middle class accent is. So probably the people in
>> >> >Japan and China (and elsewhere) think capital = standard. Most people
>> >> >think Beijing Chinese is standard, but that's a myth as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >Randy
>> >> >
>> >> >On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:58 AM, chris bennett
>> >><quiddity9 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >>-----------------------
>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >> Poster: chris bennett <quiddity9 at HOTMAIL.COM>
>> >> >> Subject: Standard US English Dialect?
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hello,
>> >> >> My girlfriend is Japanese/American and believes standard
>>US dialect =3D
>> >> >> is that of the middle class of New York City. She believes
>> >>this because =
>> >> >> =3D
>> >> >> many of her ESL learning friends have been told this and they
>> >>generally =
>> >> >> =3D
>> >> >> seek NYC tutors. She reminded me that Tokyo Japanese is
>>the standard, =
>> > > >> =3D
>> >> >> which may lend support to her NYC idea.
>> >> >> =20
>> >> >> I've searched online for the answer and have had no luck. =3D
>> >> >> Personally, I was under the impression that midwestern
>> >>dialects were =3D
>> >> >> generally accepted as "standard" US English dialect. My
>>grandfather =3D
>> >> >> worked for the Voice of America and was always impressed by
>> >>the foreign =
>> >> >> =3D
>> >> >> broadcasters (Russia's version of the VOA, etc.) who
>>spoke with a =3D
>> >> >> perfect Ohio type dialect. I've also seen Deutsche Welle
>> >>newscasters =3D
>> >> >> with the Ohio dialect.
>> >> >> =20
>> >> >> Are you able to shed any light on the matter?
>> >> >> =20
>> >> >> Thanks much,
>> >> >> Christian Bennignus
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >Randy Alexander
>> >> >Jilin City, China
>> >> >
>> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Dennis R. Preston
>> >> University Distinguished Professor
>> >> Department of English
>> >> Morrill Hall 15-C
>> >> Michigan State University
>> >> East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >Randy Alexander
>> >Jilin City, China
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dennis R. Preston
>> University Distinguished Professor
>> Department of English
>> Morrill Hall 15-C
>> Michigan State University
>> East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Randy Alexander
>Jilin City, China
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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