Standard US English Dialect?

Dennis Preston preston at MSU.EDU
Wed Apr 16 04:25:40 UTC 2008 

Scot,

This makes such good sense that it must not be true and isn't
(quite). In quite a lot of work on dialect comprehension (and
cross-dialect comprehension), Labov, Plichta, Rakerd, and I have
found that, as you say, locals understand the local variety better
than nonlocals, but in areas where there is rapid change, locals
sometimes understand an older (conservative) system better than the
emerging one they themselves speak. We found this to be particularly
true of younger speakers in the NCS (urban Great Lakes) area where we
were unable to duplicate the single-word comprehension successes of
Peterson and Barney and Hillenbrand et al.

How to explain it? First, the mismatch between perception and
production is being more and more studied, and the gap is wider than
any of us suspected. All four logical possibilities exist: produce
but not perceive, perceive but not produce, produce and perceive,
etc...
Second, where do the phonemic "slots" that people drop their vowels
into come from? They may have sources other than the psychomotor
events that trigger the realization of these "same" sounds.

It's a least keeping several of us off the streets.

dInIs






>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Scot LaFaive <slafaive at GMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>I would think that the best English as a standard should be easiest
>to understant.
>>I would be interested to know which accent is clearest and least
>>misunderstood.
>
>There are so many things wrong with these statements that I'm a little
>befuddled about how to respond.
>
>I hope you see that what is easy for one person to understand isn't
>necessarily easy for another. Being from the Midland North I might
>have trouble understanding someone from the bayous of Louisiana, but
>they should understand each other quite well. It seems like you
>consistently fail to realize this (or just enjoy provoking others):
>"proper" English (or any language) is relative to who is speaking and
>listening. There is no right or wrong English when people are
>communicating.
>
>Scot
>
>On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>>  Subject:      Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  I think this is wonderful.  I'm looking for a model of best spoken
>>English.  I assume m-w.com is such a model.  I do quibble about
>>"awe-dropping" for some words and the initial sound of short i ~i
>>instead of short e ~e for words starting with "ex".
>>
>>  I would think that the best English as a standard should be
>>easiest to understant.  Coming from the FAA where English is the
>>standard language of Air Traffic Control, I would be interested to
>>know which accent is clearest and least misunderstood.
>>
>>  Note that the FAA teaches that number 9 be pronounced NIE-ner to
>>preclude confusion with 5.  These are too close phonetically.
>>
>>  Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>  See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional
>>Poems" at authorhouse.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:44:33 +0200
>>  > From: preston at MSU.EDU
>>  > Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>  > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>  >
>>  > Yes, DC always does surprisingly well, but the East Coaster the South
>>  > is the better it does as well. SC higher than GA, GA higher than AL,
>>  > etc....We actually have some qualitative evidence for this; some of
>>  > the fieldworkers asked respondents why they ranked the DC area so
>>  > high, and many said that they figured good English was spoke in the
>  > > capital. This seemed truer of southern and south midland respondents
>>  > than of northern ones (who know they speak the best English).
>>  >
>>  > dInIs
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>-----------------------
>>  >>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  >>Poster: David Bowie
>>  >>Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>
>>  >>From: Dennis Preston
>>  >>> Poster: LanDi Liu
>>  >>
>>  >>>
>>  >>
>>  >>>> As far as NYC middle class goes, that means very little as far as
>>  >>>> accents go. Because of the large amount of people that live in NYC
>>  >>>> that weren't born there, and the fact that different boroughs in NYC
>>  >>>> have different accents to begin with, and the fact that class and
>>  >>>> accent aren't so easily correlated anymore, I don't think anyone could
>>  >>>> say what a NYC middle class accent is. So probably the people in
>>  >>>> Japan and China (and elsewhere) think capital = standard. Most people
>>  >>>> think Beijing Chinese is standard, but that's a myth as well.
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>> Washington DC is the capital of the US, not NYC.
>>  >>
>>  >>And of course, in dInIs's own work (see "Where the worst English is
>>  >>spoken"), you find that Washington DC does remarkably well in US folks'
>>  >>ratings for correctness--so maybe this capital==standard (or at least
>>  >>nearly standard) thing works in the US, as well.
>>  >>
>>  >>David, who grew up near enough to DC to disbelieve that NYC's really as
>>  >>important a city as it seems to believe
>>  >>
>>  >>------------------------------------------------------------
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>>  >
>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > Dennis R. Preston
>>  > University Distinguished Professor
>>  > Department of English
>>  > Morrill Hall 15-C
>>  > Michigan State University
>>  > East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>  >
>>  > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
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>
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>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA

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