Standard US English Dialect?

Dennis Preston preston at MSU.EDU
Wed Apr 16 04:37:27 UTC 2008 

My title "Where the worst English is spoken" refers to extensive
fieldwork studies done on opinions about language and language
variety among respondents who are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of linguistics,
an area that has come to be known as "folk linguistics." One (but not
the only) reason to conduct such research is to highlight the
difference between specialist and nonspecialist beliefs.

Since this area of research is one I spend a great deal of time on, I
suppose that is what makes me so cranky on this list from time to
time (or even more frequently). I spend a great deal of time with
people COMPLETELY IGNORANT of linguistics; when I come to this
"professional" list, I'm usually looking for a break from that and
for a more serious discussion of the topics that engage the
professionals here. Instead, I find this list dominated by people
COMPLETELY IGNORANT of linguistics, and it just wastes my time (and
pisses mem off).

It's time for me to retire from this list; every time a professional
opinion, analysis, or survey result is offered or every time a query
for such stuff goes out, a host of crap that we wouldn't be allowed
in LING 101 ensues.

Enough.

dInIs



>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Pay attention Scott.  Did I say right or wrong English?  No.
>Someone here has written about "Where the worst English is spoken"
>and thus they have a clue about "best" English.  Why don't you
>lecture that person about "right and wrong" and get off my case.
>
>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems"
>at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>>  Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:04:54 -0500
>>  From: slafaive at GMAIL.COM
>>  Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>  Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>I would think that the best English as a standard should be easiest
>>  to understant.
>>>I would be interested to know which accent is clearest and least
>>>misunderstood.
>>
>>  There are so many things wrong with these statements that I'm a little
>>  befuddled about how to respond.
>>
>>  I hope you see that what is easy for one person to understand isn't
>>  necessarily easy for another. Being from the Midland North I might
>>  have trouble understanding someone from the bayous of Louisiana, but
>>  they should understand each other quite well. It seems like you
>>  consistently fail to realize this (or just enjoy provoking others):
>>  "proper" English (or any language) is relative to who is speaking and
>>  listening. There is no right or wrong English when people are
>>  communicating.
>>
>>  Scot
>>
>>  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Tom Zurinskas  wrote:
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>  Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>  Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  I think this is wonderful. I'm looking for a model of best spoken
>>>English. I assume m-w.com is such a model. I do quibble about
>>>"awe-dropping" for some words and the initial sound of short i ~i
>>>instead of short e ~e for words starting with "ex".
>>>
>>>  I would think that the best English as a standard should be
>>>easiest to understant. Coming from the FAA where English is the
>>>standard language of Air Traffic Control, I would be interested to
>>>know which accent is clearest and least misunderstood.
>>>
>>>  Note that the FAA teaches that number 9 be pronounced NIE-ner to
>>>preclude confusion with 5. These are too close phonetically.
>  >>
>>>  Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>  See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional
>>>Poems" at authorhouse.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:44:33 +0200
>>>>  From: preston at MSU.EDU
>>>>  Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>>>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>
>>>>  Yes, DC always does surprisingly well, but the East Coaster the South
>>>>  is the better it does as well. SC higher than GA, GA higher than AL,
>>>>  etc....We actually have some qualitative evidence for this; some of
>>>>  the fieldworkers asked respondents why they ranked the DC area so
>>>>  high, and many said that they figured good English was spoke in the
>>>>  capital. This seemed truer of southern and south midland respondents
>>>>  than of northern ones (who know they speak the best English).
>>>>
>>>>  dInIs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>Poster: David Bowie
>>>>>Subject: Re: Standard US English Dialect?
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Dennis Preston
>>>>>>  Poster: LanDi Liu
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  As far as NYC middle class goes, that means very little as far as
>>>>>>>  accents go. Because of the large amount of people that live in NYC
>>>>>>>  that weren't born there, and the fact that different boroughs in NYC
>>>>>>>  have different accents to begin with, and the fact that class and
>>>>>>>  accent aren't so easily correlated anymore, I don't think anyone could
>>>>>>>  say what a NYC middle class accent is. So probably the people in
>>>>>>>  Japan and China (and elsewhere) think capital = standard. Most people
>>>>>>>  think Beijing Chinese is standard, but that's a myth as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Washington DC is the capital of the US, not NYC.
>>>>>
>>>>>And of course, in dInIs's own work (see "Where the worst English is
>>>>>spoken"), you find that Washington DC does remarkably well in US folks'
>>>>>ratings for correctness--so maybe this capital==standard (or at least
>>>>>nearly standard) thing works in the US, as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>David, who grew up near enough to DC to disbelieve that NYC's really as
>>>>>important a city as it seems to believe
>>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Dennis R. Preston
>>>>  University Distinguished Professor
>>>>  Department of English
>>>>  Morrill Hall 15-C
>>>>  Michigan State University
>>>>  East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
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>>
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>
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--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA

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