Baseball..what about rounders?

[Lynne Murphy]

'Rounders' is alive and well in London and Sussex (the only areas I have
direct experience of), and I've never, ever heard it referred to as
'baseball'.  There's also a National Rounders Association, so if it had
been a regional name, it's not anymore.  See:

<http://www.britishsports.com/rounders.htm>

'Baseball' as currently understood here is an American import.  There are
many teams listed at:
<http://www.britishsports.com/Baseball.htm>

The history document (pdf from <http://www.bbf.org/baseballresources.php>)
on the British Baseball Federation website says:
"Baseball has been played in the UK since 1890, when it was introduced by
two sources: Francis Ley, a Derby man who got interested on a trip to the
US, and A.G. Spalding an American sporting goods businessman who saw
opportunities to expand his business across the Atlantic. "

Which is not to say that 'base( )ball' isn't first a British word/concept,
but just that it's no longer thought of in that way.

Lynne

--On 14 September 2008 07:59 -0700 Dave Wilton <dave at WILTON.NET> wrote:

> The aforementioned _Baseball Before We Knew It_ by Block is perhaps the
> most comprehensive and well-researched history of baseball and its
> origins that is readily available. It covers all this in great and
> footnoted detail.
>
> "Rounders" is simply a regional (west of England, IIRC) name for the game
> of English baseball. The name "rounders" doesn't appear until the 19th
> century, after baseball was well established in America. Eventually the
> name "rounders" supplanted "baseball" in all of England, but it's the
> same game. American and English baseball diverged in the late-18th
> century and took separate evolutionary paths.
>
> To say that American baseball has its origins in rounders is like saying
> humans descended from chimpanzees or the English language comes from
> modern German. Yes, they have a common ancestor, but one doesn't come
> from the other.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of amorelli
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:37 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Baseball..what about rounders?
>
> Hello,
> And what about rounders - diligently played by the sports no-
> hopers at girls' grammar schools in Great Britain - as a possible
> ancestor?
> Regards,
> M.I.Amorelli
> Faculties of Economics and Law,
> University of Sassari,
> Sardinia,
> Italy.
>> ----Messaggio originale----
>> Da: Berson at ATT.NET
>> Data: 12-set-2008 19.14
>> A: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.
> EDU>
>> Ogg: Re: Baseball is British, oh no!
>>
>> ----------------------
> Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender:
> American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Joel
> S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> Subject:      Re: Baseball is British, oh
> no!
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
> ----
>>
>> I'm not going to worry -- the name's the same, but is the game?
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> At 9/12/2008 09:48 AM, Shapiro, Fred wrote:
>>> This is a highly
> important discovery, but it should be noted, as the
>>> Sports
> Illustrated/AP story fails to note, that it has long been
>>> known that
> "base-ball" is mentioned, with an actual picture of the
>>> game being
> played, in John Newberry's "A Little Pretty Pocket-Book,"
>>> which
> appears to date back to 1744.
>>>
>>> Fred Shapiro
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: American Dialect
> Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
>>> David A. Daniel
> [dad at POKERWIZ.COM]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:36 AM
>>> To: ADS-
> L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> Subject: Baseball is British, oh no!
>>>
>>> http:
> //sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/09/11/baseball.england.ap
>>> /index.html?cnn=yes
>>>
>>> "Easter Monday 31 March 1755
>>>
>>> "Went to
> Stoke Ch. This morning. After Dinner Went to Miss Jeale's to play
>>> at
> Base Ball with her, the 3 Miss Whiteheads, Miss Billinghurst, Miss
> Molly
>>> Flutter, Mr. Chandler, Mr. Ford & H. Parsons & Jelly. Drank Tea
> and stayed
>>> till 8."
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The
> American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The
> American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The
> American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org



Dr M Lynne Murphy
Senior Lecturer in Linguistics and English Language
Arts B135
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QN

phone: +44-(0)1273-678844
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com

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