Odd rhyme claim

Thu Dec 17 02:37:54 UTC 2009

But what sound does the "o" in "patriodic" have.  Could it be the sound in "on, off, to, go, of, pilot"?  And the "i"s have two different sounds, I assume?  And the "a" is as in "pay"?

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I say PAY-tree-it. And "patriodic" (with a flap).
>
> Always have, always will.
>
> JL
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 6:56 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> How do we say "patriot" now. From thefreedictionary.com I hear
>> PAY-tree-it (~paetree'it) for USA and PAY-tree-et (~paetree'et) for UK.
>>
>> The word "patriotic" in USA becomes pay-tree-AH-dik (~paetree"aadik), while
>> in UK it's pad-ree-AH-tic (~padree"aatik).
>>
>> Note the changes in pronouncing letter "t" the second most popular letter
>> in English text (ref truespel book 4). I just did a analysis of
>> pronunciation of the letter "t". It's at http://justpaste.it/mq
>>
>> Note that the words "awe" and "ah" both spell vowel phonemes, but use a
>> consonant. This is bad form for a phonetic respell system. Truespel uses
>> ~au for "awe" and ~aa for "ah". In text the appearance of tradstreeng "au"
>> does excede "aw" for spelling the "awe" sound, although "al" is tops (ref.
>> truespel book 4). The "ah" sound is spelled by letter "o" twice as often as
>> letter "a", but both those letters spell other sounds more often, so "aa"
>> was chosen to phonetically spell the "ah" sound in truespel. This is done
>> by BCC text spelling for phonetics as well.
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0500
>>> From: Berson at ATT.NET
>>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
>>> Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> At 12/15/2009 11:00 PM, Jerome Foster wrote:
>>>>For a current example listen to Click and Clack, the Magliozzi brothers
>> on
>>>>NPR.
>>>
>>> Do they say "ought" ("awt") -- which I can't relate to "patriot",
>>> even in New England, or "ott", as in the baseball player Mel -- which
>>> I can imagine in New England for both "patriot" and "thought"
>>> ("thott" -- the vowel a little like "cah" for "carr"?) I'll have to
>>> listen next Saturday.
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Tom Zurinskas"
>>>>To:
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:22 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>>header -----------------------
>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>Subject: Re: Odd rhyme claim
>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>"Patriot" rhyming with thought" wouldn't work for me from Conn. but for
>> my
>>>>>=
>>>>>neighbor from Mass it would. For her "ot" would be spoken "ought". The
>>>>>le=
>>>>>tter "o" often took the "awe" sound. She would call me ~Taumee (~au as
>> in
>>>>>=
>>>>>"awe") and her son as ~Baubee (Bobby). This is over 40 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom Zurinskas=2C USA - CT20=2C TN3=2C NJ33=2C FL7+=20
>>>>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 16:27:28 -0500
>>>>>>From: wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
>>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
>>>>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>>>header -----------------=
>>>>>------
>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>>Subject: Odd rhyme claim
>>
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>>>------
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>The poet John Hollander asserts that New England is "the only region of
>>>>>>t=
>>>>>he
>>>>>>nation" (or was in Emerson's time) "in whose dialect _patriot_ rhymes
>>>>>>wit=
>>>>>h
>>>>>>_thought_."
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>Really? I'd have guessed that _patriot_ "rhymes" with _thought_ nowhere
>>>>>>o=
>>>>>n
>>>>>>Panet Earth. Or is Hollander being facetious at Emerson's expense?
>> Yeah=
>>>>>=2C
>>>>>>that must be it. Sorry.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>On the other hand....I'm curious.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>JL
>>>>>>=20
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