A new collective noun: "astonishment"

Sun Dec 20 14:15:49 UTC 2009

At 9:11 AM -0500 12/20/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Brace yourselves, well-read among ye.
>
>Google Books turns up precisely *one* example of "astonishment of
>riches" (from 2004).

Isn't the leading cliché here "an embarrassment
of riches"?   I've never heard the "astonishment"
version.

LH

>
>NewspaperArchive?  Nada.
>
>Chicago Tribune?  Zip.
>
>N.Y. Times?  One (2002).
>
>Washington Post?  Zero.
>
>L.A. Times?  You're kidding me, right?
>
>New Yorker?  Puh-leeze!
>
>What is this, some kind of nightmare before Christmas?  An "astonishment of
>riches" is a cliche', a cliche' I tells ya!
>
>Needless to say, the phrase does not appear in OED.
>
>About 7,400 RGs, many of them referring to the 2002 N.Y. Times story.
>Surely that was not the point of origin.  Was it????
>
>JL
>
>On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 9:19 AM -0500 12/19/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >Evidently a "bale of turtles" originally referred not to the shelled but
>>  to
>>  >the feathered variety.
>>  >
>>  >The earlier term was "dule," and "bale," I suggest, may have come from a
>>  >misreading or misrecollection of this.  Unlikely, perhaps, but stranger
>>  >things have happened at sea.
>>  >
>>  >More recent "terms of art," used by no one but list makers and word-lovers
>>  >(if they)  include "an audit of bookeepers,"   "a balance of accountants,"
>>  >"a geek of engineers,"  "a woop of gorillas."  Feel free to use them,
>>  >however.
>>
>>  An isogloss of dialectologists?
>>  A lemma of lexicographers?  [I like that one]
>>  A tree of syntacticians?
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>  >
>>  >Most such terms are jokes rather than fully functioning elements of
>>  English.
>>  >
>>  >Also, some of the words on such lists, while real, are not catually simple
>>  >collectives as claimed, like "group" or "bunch," but a group in
>>  >some particular set of circumstances. E.g., "a bed of clams," "a field of
>>  >racehorses,"  "a ring of keys."  My guess is that "an exaltation of larks"
>>  >meant not just "a flock"  ("Ooooh! Would you look at that exaltation of
>>  >larks!")  but the sound of many chirping at once ("I heard an exaltation
>>  of
>>  >larks this a.m.").
>>  >
>>  >FWIW.
>>  >
>>  >JL
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  >>  -----------------------
>>  >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>  >>  Subject:      Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>
>>  >>  I don't see the point of beating me over the head with *other*
>>  >>  collective nouns, real or pseudo-, such as "pride of lions", "murder
>>  >>  of crows", etc.  My astonishment was seeing one that was new to
>>  >>  me.  But thanks to Jon, I am now educated that it is not completely
>>  >>  original to Dargis.  Although I bet it has not been applied to
>>  >>  Pandorans before.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Joel
>>  >>
>>  >>  At 12/18/2009 07:42 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  >>  >Google immediately shows "an astonishment of valentines" and "an
>>  >>  >astonishment of poets."
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >GB has "She scorched him, too, with an astonishment of fires" from
>>  1990.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >I'm pretty sure I read it before then, but solely as a literary
>>  metaphor.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >(Cf., of course, "an astonishment of riches").
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >JL
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
>>  wrote:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>  > >>  > > -----------------------
>>  >>  > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>  > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>>  >>  > > Subject:      A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>
>>
>>  >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > >  From the New York Times review of James Cameron's "Avatar", Dec.
>>  18,
>>  >>  > > by Manola Dargis:
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > "The exotic creatures in 'Avatar,' which include an astonishment of
>>  >>  > > undulating, flying, twitching and galloping organisms,** don't just
>>  >>  > > crawl through the underbrush; they thunder and shriek, yip and
>>  hiss,
>>  >>  > > pointy teeth gleaming.
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > An astonishment of Pandorans.*
>>  >>  > >     An "astonishment" can include more than just Na'vi, since
>>  >>  > > Dargis's next sentence is "The most important of these are the
>>  Na'vi
>>  >>  > > ...".***
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > * There seems to be a battle between "Pandorans" and "Pandorians",
>>  at
>>  >>  > > present about 3:1 for "Pandorans".  I can't get far enough into the
>>  >>  > > "Official Web Site" (avatarmovie.com) to pass the movie bits and
>>  >>  > > reach text to confirm official usage.
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > ** I'm somehow reminded of the recent NYTimes review of
>>  Humperdinck's
>>  >>  > > "Hansel and Gretel" at the Met -- describing it as a opera for
>>  >>  > > children about "hunger, kidnapping, cannibalism and witch burning."
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > *** I note the classical plural, gender-free (a la "alumni" in
>>  >  > > > popular usage).  But the singular seems to be Na'vi also, at least
>>  in
>>  >>  > > Dargis's review (Jake operates a "10-foot, blue-skinned Na'vi
>>  body.")
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > >      But how does Dargis get away without musing on the analogy
>>  with
>>  >>  > > Pandora's box?  Or would that be a spoiler?  I haven't seen the
>>  film,
>>  >>  > > of course; but Dargis writes "Although 'Avatar' delivers a late
>>  kick
>>  >>  > > to the gut that might be seen as nihilistic (and how!), it is
>>  >>  > > strangely utopian."  Pandora's box is (its mines are?) opened, and
>>  >>  > > evils are let out into its world?
>>  >>  > >
>>  >>  > > Joel
>>  >>  > >
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>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >--
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>
>
>
>--
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>
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