A new collective noun: "astonishment"
Jonathan Lighter
wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM
Sun Dec 20 14:39:20 UTC 2009
Very interesting, and unfortunately supported by evidence.
I confess that when I think back on "an astonishment of riches," I associate
it somehow with a cultured, enthusiastic, ever-so-slightly condescending
female voice on NPR, date quite unknown. I also associate it with CNN
somehow. These connections indeed suggest an N.Y. Times origin in 2002, as
the nattering classes hop on the latest striking phrase to help them
keep their jobs.
OTOH, besides sounding far more familiar, "an embarrassment of
riches" rings absolutely no associational bells, suggesting that it much
older in my experience.
However, 7,400 RGs is pretty good. As Sarah Palin said about what she said
about "death panels," my claim that "astonishment...." was a universally
recognized cliche' was "not [to] be taken literally." Instead, it was to get
"people thinking and researching" and "it was quite effective....I would
characterize [_an astonishment of riches_] like that again, in a heartbeat.”
Now how do you feel? Really abashed, I bet.
JL
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 9:11 AM -0500 12/20/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >Brace yourselves, well-read among ye.
> >
> >Google Books turns up precisely *one* example of "astonishment of
> >riches" (from 2004).
>
> Isn't the leading cliché here "an embarrassment
> of riches"? I've never heard the "astonishment"
> version.
>
> LH
>
> >
> >NewspaperArchive? Nada.
> >
> >Chicago Tribune? Zip.
> >
> >N.Y. Times? One (2002).
> >
> >Washington Post? Zero.
> >
> >L.A. Times? You're kidding me, right?
> >
> >New Yorker? Puh-leeze!
> >
> >What is this, some kind of nightmare before Christmas? An "astonishment
> of
> >riches" is a cliche', a cliche' I tells ya!
> >
> >Needless to say, the phrase does not appear in OED.
> >
> >About 7,400 RGs, many of them referring to the 2002 N.Y. Times story.
> >Surely that was not the point of origin. Was it????
> >
> >JL
> >
> >On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
> >>
> >>
>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> At 9:19 AM -0500 12/19/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >> >Evidently a "bale of turtles" originally referred not to the shelled
> but
> >> to
> >> >the feathered variety.
> >> >
> >> >The earlier term was "dule," and "bale," I suggest, may have come from
> a
> >> >misreading or misrecollection of this. Unlikely, perhaps, but
> stranger
> >> >things have happened at sea.
> >> >
> >> >More recent "terms of art," used by no one but list makers and
> word-lovers
> >> >(if they) include "an audit of bookeepers," "a balance of
> accountants,"
> >> >"a geek of engineers," "a woop of gorillas." Feel free to use them,
> >> >however.
> >>
> >> An isogloss of dialectologists?
> >> A lemma of lexicographers? [I like that one]
> >> A tree of syntacticians?
> >>
> >> LH
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Most such terms are jokes rather than fully functioning elements of
> >> English.
> >> >
> >> >Also, some of the words on such lists, while real, are not catually
> simple
> >> >collectives as claimed, like "group" or "bunch," but a group in
> >> >some particular set of circumstances. E.g., "a bed of clams," "a field
> of
> >> >racehorses," "a ring of keys." My guess is that "an exaltation of
> larks"
> >> >meant not just "a flock" ("Ooooh! Would you look at that exaltation
> of
> >> >larks!") but the sound of many chirping at once ("I heard an
> exaltation
> >> of
> >> >larks this a.m.").
> >> >
> >> >FWIW.
> >> >
> >> >JL
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> >> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't see the point of beating me over the head with *other*
> >> >> collective nouns, real or pseudo-, such as "pride of lions",
> "murder
> >> >> of crows", etc. My astonishment was seeing one that was new to
> >> >> me. But thanks to Jon, I am now educated that it is not completely
> >> >> original to Dargis. Although I bet it has not been applied to
> >> >> Pandorans before.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joel
> >> >>
> >> >> At 12/18/2009 07:42 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >> >> >Google immediately shows "an astonishment of valentines" and "an
> >> >> >astonishment of poets."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >GB has "She scorched him, too, with an astonishment of fires" from
> >> 1990.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'm pretty sure I read it before then, but solely as a literary
> >> metaphor.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >(Cf., of course, "an astonishment of riches").
> >> >> >
> >> >> >JL
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >> > > -----------------------
> >> >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> >> >> > > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> >> >> > > Subject: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > From the New York Times review of James Cameron's "Avatar",
> Dec.
> >> 18,
> >> >> > > by Manola Dargis:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > "The exotic creatures in 'Avatar,' which include an
> astonishment of
> >> >> > > undulating, flying, twitching and galloping organisms,** don't
> just
> >> >> > > crawl through the underbrush; they thunder and shriek, yip and
> >> hiss,
> >> >> > > pointy teeth gleaming.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > An astonishment of Pandorans.*
> >> >> > > An "astonishment" can include more than just Na'vi, since
> >> >> > > Dargis's next sentence is "The most important of these are the
> >> Na'vi
> >> >> > > ...".***
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > * There seems to be a battle between "Pandorans" and
> "Pandorians",
> >> at
> >> >> > > present about 3:1 for "Pandorans". I can't get far enough into
> the
> >> >> > > "Official Web Site" (avatarmovie.com) to pass the movie bits
> and
> >> >> > > reach text to confirm official usage.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > ** I'm somehow reminded of the recent NYTimes review of
> >> Humperdinck's
> >> >> > > "Hansel and Gretel" at the Met -- describing it as a opera for
> >> >> > > children about "hunger, kidnapping, cannibalism and witch
> burning."
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > *** I note the classical plural, gender-free (a la "alumni" in
> >> > > > > popular usage). But the singular seems to be Na'vi also, at
> least
> >> in
> >> >> > > Dargis's review (Jake operates a "10-foot, blue-skinned Na'vi
> >> body.")
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > But how does Dargis get away without musing on the analogy
> >> with
> >> >> > > Pandora's box? Or would that be a spoiler? I haven't seen the
> >> film,
> >> >> > > of course; but Dargis writes "Although 'Avatar' delivers a late
> >> kick
> >> >> > > to the gut that might be seen as nihilistic (and how!), it is
> >> >> > > strangely utopian." Pandora's box is (its mines are?) opened,
> and
> >> >> > > evils are let out into its world?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Joel
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> the
> >> >> truth."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> >> truth."
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
> truth."
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
--
"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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