A new collective noun: "astonishment"
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Sun Dec 20 14:55:58 UTC 2009
At 9:39 AM -0500 12/20/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Very interesting, and unfortunately supported by evidence.
>
>I confess that when I think back on "an astonishment of riches," I associate
>it somehow with a cultured, enthusiastic, ever-so-slightly condescending
>female voice on NPR, date quite unknown. I also associate it with CNN
>somehow. These connections indeed suggest an N.Y. Times origin in 2002, as
>the nattering classes hop on the latest striking phrase to help them
>keep their jobs.
>
>OTOH, besides sounding far more familiar, "an embarrassment of
>riches" rings absolutely no associational bells, suggesting that it much
>older in my experience.
I seem to recall it as a calque on "embarras de
richesse", probably some time ago. (Of course,
"riches" < "richesse" is a classic reanalysis,
around 8 centuries old.)
LH
>However, 7,400 RGs is pretty good. As Sarah Palin said about what she said
>about "death panels," my claim that "astonishment...." was a universally
>recognized cliche' was "not [to] be taken literally." Instead, it was to get
>"people thinking and researching" and "it was quite effective....I would
>characterize [_an astonishment of riches_] like that again, in a heartbeat."
>
>Now how do you feel? Really abashed, I bet.
>
>JL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> At 9:11 AM -0500 12/20/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >Brace yourselves, well-read among ye.
>> >
>> >Google Books turns up precisely *one* example of "astonishment of
>> >riches" (from 2004).
>>
>> Isn't the leading cliché here "an embarrassment
>> of riches"? I've never heard the "astonishment"
>> version.
>>
>> LH
>>
>> >
>> >NewspaperArchive? Nada.
>> >
>> >Chicago Tribune? Zip.
>> >
>> >N.Y. Times? One (2002).
>> >
>> >Washington Post? Zero.
>> >
>> >L.A. Times? You're kidding me, right?
>> >
>> >New Yorker? Puh-leeze!
>> >
>> >What is this, some kind of nightmare before Christmas? An "astonishment
>> of
>> >riches" is a cliche', a cliche' I tells ya!
>> >
>> >Needless to say, the phrase does not appear in OED.
>> >
>> >About 7,400 RGs, many of them referring to the 2002 N.Y. Times story.
>> >Surely that was not the point of origin. Was it????
>> >
>> >JL
>> >
>> >On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> -----------------------
>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> >> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> At 9:19 AM -0500 12/19/09, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >> >Evidently a "bale of turtles" originally referred not to the shelled
>> but
>> >> to
>> >> >the feathered variety.
>> >> >
>> >> >The earlier term was "dule," and "bale," I suggest, may have come from
>> a
>> >> >misreading or misrecollection of this. Unlikely, perhaps, but
> > stranger
>> >> >things have happened at sea.
>> >> >
>> >> >More recent "terms of art," used by no one but list makers and
>> word-lovers
>> >> >(if they) include "an audit of bookeepers," "a balance of
>> accountants,"
>> >> >"a geek of engineers," "a woop of gorillas." Feel free to use them,
>> >> >however.
>> >>
>> >> An isogloss of dialectologists?
>> >> A lemma of lexicographers? [I like that one]
>> >> A tree of syntacticians?
>> >>
>> >> LH
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Most such terms are jokes rather than fully functioning elements of
>> >> English.
>> >> >
> > >> >Also, some of the words on such lists, while real, are not catually
>> simple
>> >> >collectives as claimed, like "group" or "bunch," but a group in
>> >> >some particular set of circumstances. E.g., "a bed of clams," "a field
>> of
>> >> >racehorses," "a ring of keys." My guess is that "an exaltation of
>> larks"
>> >> >meant not just "a flock" ("Ooooh! Would you look at that exaltation
>> of
>> >> >larks!") but the sound of many chirping at once ("I heard an
>> exaltation
>> >> of
>> >> >larks this a.m.").
>> >> >
>> >> >FWIW.
>> >> >
>> >> >JL
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >> >> -----------------------
>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >> Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't see the point of beating me over the head with *other*
>> >> >> collective nouns, real or pseudo-, such as "pride of lions",
>> "murder
>> >> >> of crows", etc. My astonishment was seeing one that was new to
>> >> >> me. But thanks to Jon, I am now educated that it is not completely
>> >> >> original to Dargis. Although I bet it has not been applied to
>> >> >> Pandorans before.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Joel
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At 12/18/2009 07:42 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>> >> >> >Google immediately shows "an astonishment of valentines" and "an
>> >> >> >astonishment of poets."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >GB has "She scorched him, too, with an astonishment of fires" from
>> >> 1990.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I'm pretty sure I read it before then, but solely as a literary
>> >> metaphor.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >(Cf., of course, "an astonishment of riches").
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >JL
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> > > >> > > -----------------------
>> >> >> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> >
>> >> >> > > Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> >> >> > > Subject: A new collective noun: "astonishment"
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > From the New York Times review of James Cameron's "Avatar",
>> Dec.
>> >> 18,
>> >> >> > > by Manola Dargis:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > "The exotic creatures in 'Avatar,' which include an
>> astonishment of
>> >> >> > > undulating, flying, twitching and galloping organisms,** don't
>> just
>> >> >> > > crawl through the underbrush; they thunder and shriek, yip and
>> >> hiss,
>> >> >> > > pointy teeth gleaming.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > An astonishment of Pandorans.*
>> >> >> > > An "astonishment" can include more than just Na'vi, since
>> >> >> > > Dargis's next sentence is "The most important of these are the
>> >> Na'vi
>> >> >> > > ...".***
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > * There seems to be a battle between "Pandorans" and
>> "Pandorians",
>> >> at
>> >> >> > > present about 3:1 for "Pandorans". I can't get far enough into
>> the
>> >> >> > > "Official Web Site" (avatarmovie.com) to pass the movie bits
> > and
>> >> >> > > reach text to confirm official usage.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ** I'm somehow reminded of the recent NYTimes review of
>> >> Humperdinck's
>> >> >> > > "Hansel and Gretel" at the Met -- describing it as a opera for
>> >> >> > > children about "hunger, kidnapping, cannibalism and witch
>> burning."
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > *** I note the classical plural, gender-free (a la "alumni" in
>> >> > > > > popular usage). But the singular seems to be Na'vi also, at
>> least
>> >> in
>> >> >> > > Dargis's review (Jake operates a "10-foot, blue-skinned Na'vi
> > >> body.")
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > But how does Dargis get away without musing on the analogy
>> >> with
>> >> >> > > Pandora's box? Or would that be a spoiler? I haven't seen the
>> >> film,
>> >> >> > > of course; but Dargis writes "Although 'Avatar' delivers a late
>> >> kick
>> >> >> > > to the gut that might be seen as nihilistic (and how!), it is
>> >> >> > > strangely utopian." Pandora's box is (its mines are?) opened,
>> and
>> >> >> > > evils are let out into its world?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Joel
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> the
>> >> >> truth."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> >> truth."
>> >> >
>> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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