relative "that" again

[Herb Stahlke]

Randy,

I would expect "now" to be stressed wherever it's used, and BPB
rendering of Psalm 121 uses "not" in both stressed and unstressed
positions.  In v. 4 the stressed "not" is postverbal, which is a
marked position for it.  I'm looking for a searchable copy of the BPB
to check further on the use of "that."

Herb

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Randy Alexander
<strangeguitars at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Poster:       Randy Alexander <strangeguitars at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: relative "that" again
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>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This topic is peripheral to the interests of this list, but I'm hoping
>> it'll catch the interest of another grammarian or two.
>
> (And maybe someone else with a choral music background.)
>
>> 3  He will not let thy foot be moved,
>>        nor slumber; that thee keeps.
>>
>> I have and still do maintain firmly that there is no grammatical
>> evidence to support the claim that "that" used at the beginning of a
>> relative clause is a pronoun and not simply a subordinating
>> conjunction.  Combine a grammarian with a choir director, however, and
>> the thought interrupts maintaining the beat that this instance of
>> relative "that" feels very pronominal, and not just in the
>> impressionistic sense that others have expressed.  This is the only
>> instance of relative "that" I have encountered where "that" must be
>> stressed.  We rarely stress "that" as a subordinating conjunction,
>> whether in a relative or a content clause.  Here, however, the meter,
>> so slavishly followed by the writers, requires us to stress "that."
>> It's an iambic line, and "that" bears the ictus of the second foot.
>
> I'm not convinced that's a strong argument.  Looking at some of the
> other words in that position, we have "not" and "now".
>
> Comparing the verse treatment to translations, we can see that "that
> thee keeps" means "He that thee keeps".
>
> Wilson: regarding "The guy that's sister married your cousin", what if
> it were "The girl that's sister married your cousin"?
>
> I'm not with my CGEL (until after 6 more hours), so I can't check
> that, but so far I think the psalm text is just breaking the grammar
> to fit the meter.
>
> Have you searched for other similar instances of "that" in the BPB, or
> other psalter?
>
> --
> Randy Alexander
> Jilin City, China
> My Manchu studies blog:
> http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>
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