ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)

Wed Feb 25 23:00:54 UTC 2009

Wilson,
Yes, there is, and there are probably languages (most likely in Northern Asia) that contrast the two.
To me, the unrounded /u/ has lower pitch, and sounds more "/u/-like" to someone who doesn't
have one; the barred /i/ sounds more /i/ or /I/ like.  Compare the Japanese u to the Russian sound
written with what looks like a joined b and I.  Many of us will have a lowered barred /i/ in things like
rib, rip, and when unstressed in many words (I have it in the second syllable of things like chicken).
Unrounded /u/ is sporadic at best in English--I've worked with dialects that usually have unrounded
/o/ in CUP, and unrounded /u/ in this class occurs, but at very low frequency.

Paul Johnston

----- Original Message -----
From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ------------
> -----------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
> I agree, except for one minor quibble. Is there really an audible
> distinction between an unrounded /u/ and a barred /i/? I willing to be
> taken to school on this point.
>
> -Wilson
> â€“â€“â€“
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Mark Twain
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Laurence Horn
> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------
> -------------
> > Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster: Â  Â  Â  Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009
> (#2009-55)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> >
> > At 11:36 AM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
> >>FWIW, a friend of mine, a native of Worcester, pronounces the name
> >>something like "Wistuh." I heard the same or, at least, a very
> similar>>pronunciation, used here in Boston by a guy who said that
> he had been
> >>to - not "lived in" - "Wistuh." I'd expect a lower vowel than
> what is
> >>probably an unrounded /u/. Naturally, another possibility is that my
> >>hearing simply isn't what it used to be.
> >>
> >>-Wilson
> >
> > The *real* natives did front the stressed vowel more than suggested
> > by my implied [U] below, but not really lowered to a wedge [^]
> > either, I don't think. Â Maybe a stressed barred-i? Â Of course the
> > unrounding is a bit tricky to extract because of the rounded /w/ it
> > follows, but I think barred-i gets us pretty close: Â neither as
> back> as in "wuss" nor as front as in "wistful".
> >
> > LH
> >
> >>---
> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
> complaint to
> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>-----
> >>-Mark Twain
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
> wrote:>>> Â ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>-----------------------
> >>> Â Sender: ? Â ? Â ? Â American Dialect Society <ADS-
> L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>> Â Poster: ? Â ? Â ? Â Amy West
> <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
> >>> Â Subject: ? Â ? Â ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb
> 2009 (#2009-55)
> >>>
> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> >>>
> >>> Â OK, now I'm understanding what Paul Johnston described as the
> lip>>> Â /r/. (I don't have a good phonological background).
> >>>
> >>> Â I'm here in Worcester, though not a native. There is only one
> kid in
> >>> Â my son's cohort who speaks like that, and it sounds funny to
> the rest
> >>> Â of the cohort.
> >>>
> >>> Â Woo State has a Communications Sciences and Disorders
> department with
> >>> Â a clinic. If people are interested in investigating this as
> an aspect
> >>> Â of a standard or nonstandard Worcester accent, perhaps we can
> enlist>>> Â their aid in getting some hard data. Not just from the
> clinic, which
> >>> Â would be biased, but having students do surveys, etc.
> >>>
> >>> Â Right now, my impression is that if it is not classified as a
> "speech>>> Â impediment/defect" it is a nonstandard variant of the
> local>>> Â accent/pronunciation.
> >>>
> >>> Â ---Amy West
> >>> Â residing in Worcester almost 4 years
> >>> Â working here almost 8 years
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Date: ? Â ? Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:45:41 -0500
> >>>>From: ? Â ? Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >>>>Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >>>>
> >>>>At 9:58 AM -0600 2/23/09, Barbara Need wrote:
> >>>>>I am not a native of Massachusetts, but i lived north of
> Boston for
> >>>>>nine years from 9.5. I never heard anyone up in Essex county who
> >>>>>sounded like Barbara Walters--and no one ever pronounced my
> first name
> >>>>>the way she is stereotyped as saying hers. (I remember people
> in my
> >>>>>neck of the woods making fun of her!)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Barbara
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I just checked with my daughter, who recently endured...er, spent
> >>>>four years as an undergraduate in Worcester (a.k.a. Wuhsta),
> and she
> >>>>doesn't recall anyone speaking quite like BW, despite the rampant
> >>>>non-rhoticity. ? "Babra" si, "Babwa" no.
> >>>>
> >>>>LH
> >>>
> >>> Â ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Â The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
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