ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)

Wed Feb 25 23:17:50 UTC 2009

I have a contrast between "just" meaning "fair" and the adverb "just"
as in "just a minute."  The adjective has inverted lower case a, the
lower mid central vowel.  The adverb has barred i.

Herb

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Paul A Johnston, Jr.
<paul.johnston at wmich.edu> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Paul A Johnston, Jr." <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wilson,
> Yes, there is, and there are probably languages (most likely in Northern Asia) that contrast the two.
> To me, the unrounded /u/ has lower pitch, and sounds more "/u/-like" to someone who doesn't
> have one; the barred /i/ sounds more /i/ or /I/ like.  Compare the Japanese u to the Russian sound
> written with what looks like a joined b and I.  Many of us will have a lowered barred /i/ in things like
> rib, rip, and when unstressed in many words (I have it in the second syllable of things like chicken).
> Unrounded /u/ is sporadic at best in English--I've worked with dialects that usually have unrounded
> /o/ in CUP, and unrounded /u/ in this class occurs, but at very low frequency.
>
> Paul Johnston
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:15 pm
> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ------------
>> -----------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>
>> I agree, except for one minor quibble. Is there really an audible
>> distinction between an unrounded /u/ and a barred /i/? I willing to be
>> taken to school on this point.
>>
>> -Wilson
>> â€“â€“â€“
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> -----
>> -Mark Twain
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Laurence Horn
>> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------
>> -------------
>> > Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster: Â  Â  Â  Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> > Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009
>> (#2009-55)
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------
>> >
>> > At 11:36 AM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
>> >>FWIW, a friend of mine, a native of Worcester, pronounces the name
>> >>something like "Wistuh." I heard the same or, at least, a very
>> similar>>pronunciation, used here in Boston by a guy who said that
>> he had been
>> >>to - not "lived in" - "Wistuh." I'd expect a lower vowel than
>> what is
>> >>probably an unrounded /u/. Naturally, another possibility is that my
>> >>hearing simply isn't what it used to be.
>> >>
>> >>-Wilson
>> >
>> > The *real* natives did front the stressed vowel more than suggested
>> > by my implied [U] below, but not really lowered to a wedge [^]
>> > either, I don't think. Â Maybe a stressed barred-i? Â Of course the
>> > unrounding is a bit tricky to extract because of the rounded /w/ it
>> > follows, but I think barred-i gets us pretty close: Â neither as
>> back> as in "wuss" nor as front as in "wistful".
>> >
>> > LH
>> >
>> >>---
>> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>> complaint to
>> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >>-----
>> >>-Mark Twain
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
>> wrote:>>> Â ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>-----------------------
>> >>> Â Sender: ? Â ? Â ? Â American Dialect Society <ADS-
>> L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>> Â Poster: ? Â ? Â ? Â Amy West
>> <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>> >>> Â Subject: ? Â ? Â ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb
>> 2009 (#2009-55)
>> >>>
>> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------
>> >>>
>> >>> Â OK, now I'm understanding what Paul Johnston described as the
>> lip>>> Â /r/. (I don't have a good phonological background).
>> >>>
>> >>> Â I'm here in Worcester, though not a native. There is only one
>> kid in
>> >>> Â my son's cohort who speaks like that, and it sounds funny to
>> the rest
>> >>> Â of the cohort.
>> >>>
>> >>> Â Woo State has a Communications Sciences and Disorders
>> department with
>> >>> Â a clinic. If people are interested in investigating this as
>> an aspect
>> >>> Â of a standard or nonstandard Worcester accent, perhaps we can
>> enlist>>> Â their aid in getting some hard data. Not just from the
>> clinic, which
>> >>> Â would be biased, but having students do surveys, etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> Â Right now, my impression is that if it is not classified as a
>> "speech>>> Â impediment/defect" it is a nonstandard variant of the
>> local>>> Â accent/pronunciation.
>> >>>
>> >>> Â ---Amy West
>> >>> Â residing in Worcester almost 4 years
>> >>> Â working here almost 8 years
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Date: ? Â ? Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:45:41 -0500
>> >>>>From: ? Â ? Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> >>>>Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>At 9:58 AM -0600 2/23/09, Barbara Need wrote:
>> >>>>>I am not a native of Massachusetts, but i lived north of
>> Boston for
>> >>>>>nine years from 9.5. I never heard anyone up in Essex county who
>> >>>>>sounded like Barbara Walters--and no one ever pronounced my
>> first name
>> >>>>>the way she is stereotyped as saying hers. (I remember people
>> in my
>> >>>>>neck of the woods making fun of her!)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Barbara
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I just checked with my daughter, who recently endured...er, spent
>> >>>>four years as an undergraduate in Worcester (a.k.a. Wuhsta),
>> and she
>> >>>>doesn't recall anyone speaking quite like BW, despite the rampant
>> >>>>non-rhoticity. ? "Babra" si, "Babwa" no.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>LH
>> >>>
>> >>> Â ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Â The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>
>> >>
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