ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Thu Feb 26 02:40:34 UTC 2009
At 6:17 PM -0500 2/25/09, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>I have a contrast between "just" meaning "fair" and the adverb "just"
>as in "just a minute." The adjective has inverted lower case a, the
>lower mid central vowel. The adverb has barred i.
>
>Herb
Hmmm. I agree about the barred-i for the adverb,
but for me the adjective has something more like
a wedge. Or maybe I've never actually considered
what that upside-down print a is and whether or
not it's part of my inventory; I see on the IPA
chart that it's slightly less back than the wedge
and slightly lower. I really have no idea;
vowels are tough cookies.
LH
>
>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Paul A Johnston, Jr.
><paul.johnston at wmich.edu> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the
>>mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: "Paul A Johnston, Jr." <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Wilson,
>> Yes, there is, and there are probably
>>languages (most likely in Northern Asia) that
>>contrast the two.
>> To me, the unrounded /u/ has lower pitch, and
>>sounds more "/u/-like" to someone who doesn't
>> have one; the barred /i/ sounds more /i/ or
>>/I/ like. Compare the Japanese u to the
>>Russian sound
>> written with what looks like a joined b and I.
>>Many of us will have a lowered barred /i/ in
>>things like
>> rib, rip, and when unstressed in many words (I
>>have it in the second syllable of things like
>>chicken).
>> Unrounded /u/ is sporadic at best in
>>English--I've worked with dialects that usually
>>have unrounded
>> /o/ in CUP, and unrounded /u/ in this class
>>occurs, but at very low frequency.
>>
>> Paul Johnston
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:15 pm
>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header ------------
>>> -----------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009 (#2009-55)
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> I agree, except for one minor quibble. Is there really an audible
>>> distinction between an unrounded /u/ and a barred /i/? I willing to be
>>> taken to school on this point.
>>>
>>> -Wilson
>>> â¤"â¤"â¤"
>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> -----
>>> -Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Laurence Horn
>>> <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------
>>> -------------
>>> > Sender: Â Â Â American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> > Poster: Â Â Â Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> > Subject: Â Â Â Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb 2009
>>> (#2009-55)
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>> >
>>> > At 11:36 AM -0500 2/25/09, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>> >>FWIW, a friend of mine, a native of Worcester, pronounces the name
>>> >>something like "Wistuh." I heard the same or, at least, a very
>>> similar>>pronunciation, used here in Boston by a guy who said that
> >> he had been
>>> >>to - not "lived in" - "Wistuh." I'd expect a lower vowel than
>>> what is
>>> >>probably an unrounded /u/. Naturally, another possibility is that my
>>> >>hearing simply isn't what it used to be.
>>> >>
>>> >>-Wilson
>>> >
>>> > The *real* natives did front the stressed vowel more than suggested
>>> > by my implied [U] below, but not really lowered to a wedge [^]
>>> > either, I don't think. Â Maybe a stressed barred-i? Â Of course the
> >> > unrounding is a bit tricky to extract because of the rounded /w/ it
>>> > follows, but I think barred-i gets us pretty close: Â neither as
>>> back> as in "wuss" nor as front as in "wistful".
>>> >
>>> > LH
>>> >
>>> >>---
>>> >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>>> complaint to
>>> >>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> >>-----
>>> >>-Mark Twain
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Amy West <medievalist at w-sts.com>
>>> wrote:>>> Â ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >>>-----------------------
>>> >>> Â Sender: ? Â ? Â ? Â American Dialect Society <ADS-
>>> L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>>>> Â Poster: ? Â ? Â ? Â Amy West
>>> <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>>> >>> Â Subject: ? Â ? Â ? Re: ADS-L Digest - 22 Feb 2009 to 23 Feb
>>> 2009 (#2009-55)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------------
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â OK, now I'm understanding what Paul Johnston described as the
>>> lip>>> Â /r/. (I don't have a good phonological background).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â I'm here in Worcester, though not a native. There is only one
>>> kid in
>>> >>> Â my son's cohort who speaks like that, and it sounds funny to
>>> the rest
>>> >>> Â of the cohort.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â Woo State has a Communications Sciences and Disorders
>>> department with
>>> >>> Â a clinic. If people are interested in investigating this as
>>> an aspect
>>> >>> Â of a standard or nonstandard Worcester accent, perhaps we can
>>> enlist>>> Â their aid in getting some hard data. Not just from the
>>> clinic, which
>>> >>> Â would be biased, but having students do surveys, etc.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â Right now, my impression is that if it is not classified as a
>>> "speech>>> Â impediment/defect" it is a nonstandard variant of the
>>> local>>> Â accent/pronunciation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â ---Amy West
>>> >>> Â residing in Worcester almost 4 years
>>> >>> Â working here almost 8 years
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>Date: ? Â ? Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:45:41 -0500
>>> >>>>From: ? Â ? Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> >>>>Subject: Re: ~ (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>At 9:58 AM -0600 2/23/09, Barbara Need wrote:
>>> >>>>>I am not a native of Massachusetts, but i lived north of
>>> Boston for
>>> >>>>>nine years from 9.5. I never heard anyone up in Essex county who
>>> >>>>>sounded like Barbara Walters--and no one ever pronounced my
>>> first name
>>> >>>>>the way she is stereotyped as saying hers. (I remember people
>>> in my
>>> >>>>>neck of the woods making fun of her!)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Barbara
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I just checked with my daughter, who recently endured...er, spent
>>> >>>>four years as an undergraduate in Worcester (a.k.a. Wuhsta),
>>> and she
>>> >>>>doesn't recall anyone speaking quite like BW, despite the rampant
>>> >>>>non-rhoticity. ? "Babra" si, "Babwa" no.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>LH
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Â ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> Â The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
More information about the Ads-l
mailing list