stepgrandparents and relational ambiguity

[Tom Zurinskas]

Would you say the word "bank" def 1 is a homophone of "bank" definition 2 if both are spelled the same and pronounced the same?



Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://tinypaste.com/76f44



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> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:24:20 -0800
> From: zwicky at STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: stepgrandparents and relational ambiguity
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Arnold Zwicky
> Subject: Re: stepgrandparents and relational ambiguity
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Benjamin Barrett wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Benjamin Barrett
>> Subject: Re: stepgrandparents and relational ambiguity
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>
>>> At 1:22 AM -0800 1/22/09, Benjamin Barrett wrote:
>>>> Brother and sister as well as uncle and aunt are ambiguous in some
>>>> cultures...
>>>
>>> I would submit that these aren't actual ambiguities, but instances of
>>> vagueness or underspecification. The standard identity-of-sense
>>> tests for ambiguity ("I have three uncles" vs. "I visited two banks"
>>> or "Neither Sally nor Beth can bear children") don't respect these
>>> differences in ways that someone can be an uncle or sister or
>>> brother-in-law, and the fact that other languages make a distinction
>>> we don't isn't decisive.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with those tests and have trouble seeing the
>> ambiguities in the samples.
>
> here's how it goes. "bank" as a noun can refer either to a riverbank
> or to a financial institution. "two banks" can then refer either to
> two riverbanks or to two financial instutions. but it can't refer to
> one riverbank and one financial institution (the "crossed
> understanding"), except as a joke. that's an indication that the
> difference in the understandings of "bank" is a true ambiguity; there
> are two different lexical items "bank" here.
>
> contrast "brother", which can refer either to a younger brother or to
> an older brother. "two brothers" can then refer either to two younger
> brothers or to two older brothers -- or to one of each (the "crossed
> understanding"). that's an indication that the difference in the
> understandings of "brother" is a matter of vagueness rather than
> ambiguity; there's only one lexical item here (though there are other
> lexical items "brother").
>
>> I often have the problem of trying to say brother or sister in
>> Japanese and because the relative ages are not provided in English. I
>> have to either guess or else try to explain it without ruining the
>> point I'm trying to make.
>
> a classic problem that arises whenever a language obliges a
> distinction (in lexical choice, inflectional form, etc.).
>
> arnold
>
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