"slang" (1746); insults - V. Popular Culture

[Arun K Raman]

Is this also another reason why Rap music or any music aimed at a primarily
black audience (or at least is supposed to be marketed at a black market) is
usually met with derision or uncomfortability in the older black
generation?

I also digress onto another point now.

I remember growing up in India when an older friend would tell me what the
words fuck and bitch meant and at that time those words probably meant the
same thing as the word bread to me. He probably held them in a slightly
reverential regard. There was no other reason for him to tell them to me.
The culture in India now has changed quite a bit and keeps apace with the
rest of the world. I have no probably with the words myself and use them but
in select company. For example, my parents who grew up in India and now live
in America, I can't do it there. But they curse in Tamil/Hindi/Malayalam  in
words that have intrinsic meanings worse than Fuck or Son of a Bitch. In
other social settings, I curse or curb my tongue if it is apt.
---


> Date:    Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:32:17 -0400
> From:    Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: "slang" (1746); favorable insults
>
> These differences in perception owe much to individual sensibilities,
> tempers, and local conditions.  Here's what I posted almost two years ago:
>
> From Norman Gladden, _The Somme 1916: A Personal Account_ (London: William
> Kimber, 1974), p. 86 [based on Private Gladden's diary]:
>
> "Swearing and talk that was often dirty, sometimes blasphemous, were a
> common habit in the army and most of us wasted much breath on unnecessary
> expletives. That morning [Sept. 21, 1916]...two members of the draft came
> to
> blows after one had called the other a 'bastard.' It was an army convention
> that this word was taboo on the grounds that it insulted not only the
> recipient but his mother. Prevailing public opinion decreed that such a
> lapse could be repaired only by apology or a fight. Even an NCO or an
> officer could be called to account for its use. This particular fight...was
> eventually stopped by the bystanders."
>
> I have regrettably lost track of an additional quote from the '30s,
> referring to sailing ship etiquette around 1890, that told a similar story,
> except that "son of a bitch" was the taboo word, for the same reason.
> Stabbing was the consequence.
>
> It was in seventh grade that I first encountered MF/MFing. There was a fair
> number of lads (white)  who seemed to employ the words as often as
> possible.  Nobody seemed to take undue offense, but the word did seem
> twisted and creepy to me.
>
>  In high school, however,  I saw a guy who had just been called a "son of a
> bitch" grab the accuser in a rage and demand, "Are you talking about my
> mother?"  They didn't come to blows, amazingly.  I remember thinking
> that getting angry on that basis was very weird.
>
> The late Peter Tamony once wrote that a former inmate had told him, in the
> 1930s, that in either Alcatraz or San Quentin around 1920, MF was the
> one epithet that nobody dared use. Stabbing would be the consequence. Or
> worse.
>
> I too am disconcerted when women call each other "bitch" in a spirit of
> fun.  I began noticing it only within the past five years, I believe.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Alison Murie <sagehen7470 at att.net> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Alison Murie <sagehen7470 at ATT.NET>
> > Subject:      Re: "slang" (1746); favorable insults
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >  Jocelyn Limpert  wrote:
> >                                                                 "
> > Also, I think nothing of
> > referring to a woman as "bitch," but try not to refer to black women as
> > bitches as they seem to find it very offensive, whereas white women do
> > not
> > interpret it the same way."
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Hunh?  This 78-yr-old white female finds "bitch" as applied to women
> > extremely
> > offensive.  Since the old fart cohort is pretty big in these times,
> > I'd guess that to
> > generalize inoffensiveness to white women is a mistake.
> > (I do say "son of a bitch" as a general purpose expletive, and use
> > "bitch" as a
> > pejorative noun about (e.g.) something difficult.)
> > AM
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:21:07 -0400
> From:    Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: "A hard road to hoe"
>
> That's true. But what surprised me is that Google shows that this a
> favorite *pet peeve* of a surprising number of "ordinary," so to
> speak, people. I took only a casual glance at the first few hits, but
> it seemed as though there are almost as many instances of people
> bitching about the fact that there are people who use this as there
> are instances of people who use this.
>
> Me myself, as we say in the 'hood, I'm not annoyed by it at all.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Mark Mandel<thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "A hard road to hoe"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I heard this - spoken by a Judge - for the first time, yesterday.
> >> However, a quick googling showed me that I'm away <har! har!> behind
> >> the curve - or is that  "way behind the curb"? - on this one. Ordinary
> >> people, not just we
> >> my-god-how-can-you-possibly-fxck-up-a-millenia-old-cliche types, are
> >> going nuts over this one.
> >
> >
> > And the answer, although you didn't ask and I'm sure you're aware, is
> that
> > most of us are at least a couple of generations removed from hoeing rows
> of
> > crops, or weeding or picking or doing anything else with them.
> >
> > Alas.
> >
> > m a m
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -Wilson
> –––
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Mark Twain
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2009 to 25 Jul 2009 (#2009-207)
> ************************************************************
>

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