"Big Apple" revisited: Alain Locke's supposed 1919 Harlem/big apple quote (UNCLASSIFIED)

Wed Jun 3 21:41:02 UTC 2009

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Did you find this on the Fulton Postcards website?  I must have missed
it . . .

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Lighter
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:37 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: "Big Apple" revisited: Alain Locke's supposed 1919
> Harlem/big apple quote (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
---------------
> --------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "Big Apple" revisited: Alain Locke's supposed 1919
> Harlem/big
>               apple quote (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
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> --------
>
> A year earlier in that same sense of "Broadway variety theaters" - and
> from
> the same columnist (or at least column):
>
> 1926 _Poughkeepsie Eagle_ (Nov. 16) 6:  The Daybook of a New
> Yorker....[H]e
> got some billings in Oklahoma and now he is "Getting his bite of the
> Big
> Apple," as the [?vaudevil]ians say when they are p[?laying] Broadway.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC <
> Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
> > Subject:      Re: "Big Apple" revisited:  Alain Locke's supposed
1919
> >              Harlem/big              apple quote (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >
> >
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> ----------
> >
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >
> > Can't help with Gerry's specific request, but here is an early "Big
> > Apple" cite that I don't find on Barry Popik's website.
> >
> >
> > _Poughkeepsie Eagle News_ Jan 8 1927 p. 6
> > "The Daybook of a New Yorker"
> > "New York, Jan. 7 -- Mayor Jimmy Walker is a slim little fellow,
> quick
> > and nervous in his movements like a vaudeville hoofer on the first
> night
> > of his first bite out of the Big Apple."
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
> > > Behalf Of Cohen, Gerald Leonard
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:54 PM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: "Big Apple" revisited: Alain Locke's supposed 1919
> Harlem/big
> > > apple quote
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > ---------------
> > > --------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Cohen, Gerald Leonard" <gcohen at MST.EDU>
> > > Subject:      "Big Apple" revisited:  Alain Locke's supposed 1919
> > > Harlem/big
> > >               apple quote
> > >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > > --------
> > >
> > > This is a follow-up and a request for assistance.
> > >
> > >     Barry Popik and I have been checking the statement as reported
> in
> > > the 1/17/2007 Wall Street Journal that A. Locke said in 1919:
> "Harlem
> > > is the precious fruit of the Garden of Eden, the big apple." The
> > > statement reportedly appears on a map of the Harlem Renaissance in
> the
> > > possession of Marc H. Miller (Founder and Director of Ephemera
> Press),
> > > but no source was cited.
> > >
> > >     I don't find the quote entered in Google books, and in some
> twenty
> > > years of research on the origin of "The Big Apple" neither Barry
> nor I
> > > have come across mention of it other than in the 2007 WSJ article.
> > > Marc Miller recently responded to a query of mine about this, but
> the
> > > source still remains unknown (a book of quotations in the B'klyn
> > Public
> > > Library--title not given--and the book of quotations did not cite
> the
> > > source of A. Locke's supposed 1919 "big apple" quote).
> > >
> > >      Barry's website (barrypopik.com)  comments: "I have spent
many
> > > hours reading the Amsterdam News and New York Age, and looking at
> all
> > > of Locke's and [Fletcher] Henderson's works. "Big Apple" is not
> there
> > > before the 1930s."
> > >
> > >     The interpretation seems clear.  Unless a source can be
located
> > for
> > > A. Locke's 1919 quotation, it should be regarded as non-existent.
> > But,
> > > if by chance, someone can locate the quote, I'd very much
> appreciate
> > > hearing of it. Full credit would be given in the "Big Apple" book
> that
> > > Barry and I are presently preparing (2nd, revised, edition of my
> 1991
> > > monograph on the origin of the sobriquet).
> > >
> > >     Btw, below my signoff is the response I've just received (June
> 1)
> > > from Marc Miller on the A. Locke quotation.
> > >
> > > Gerald Cohen
> > >
> > > [reply on A. Locke's supposed 1919 "Harlem is...the big apple"
> > > quotation]:
> > >
> > > Dear Gerald Cohen,
> > >
> > > My knowledge about this quotation has not changed since I last
> > answered
> > > your
> > > query.  I found it in a book compiling well-known quotations in
the
> > > main
> > > branch of the Brooklyn Public Library.    I was seeking an
> appropriate
> > > quotation about Harlem.  Unfortunately I do not have a record of
> the
> > > title
> > > of the book.  If the book had listed a source for the quotation
> along
> > > with
> > > the date, I would have written it down.   Knowing a bit about
> Locke, I
> > > can
> > > say it is not uncommon for him to use the word "fruit" or to make
> > > biblical
> > > allusions   I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of the
> quote.
> > > It is
> > > possible that the book of quotations was mistaken about the date.
> > > Locke
> > > lived until 1954.  Good luck with your book.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Marc H. Miller. Ph.D.
> > >
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>
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