"some many"?

Fri Jun 12 08:20:50 UTC 2009

TZ,

Does your kids, if you have any, listen to your instruction wrt
awe-dropping?

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "some many"?
>
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>
> The term "some many" perhaps emerged as a kidism (to coin a word).  If the
> "so" in "so many" is mispoken (via an accent) by an adult as "suh" then "so
> many" becomes "suh many" which sounds the same to kids as "some many" in
> fluid speech.  So they think they're hearing "some many" instead of "so
> many" and they start writing it that way, which is phonetially true to what
> they are hearing.  Kids can gloss over the fact that it doesn't make sense.
>  It's gotta be right if the big people say it that way.
>
> An example is kids hearing the word "hock" for "hawk" by awe-dropping
> adults, so they hear the term "hawk your wares" mispoken as "hock your
> wares", which means to pawn them instead of sell them.  Then kids grow up
> and actually spell the phrase as they've heard it, "hock your wares".  The
> adults are thinking "hawk", but as awe-droppers they're saying "hock".  The
> kids hear "hock" and don't realize what's going on.  Dialect inventions,
> like awe-dropping and vowel swapping, are causing misunderstanding.
>
> Points to a need to stablize pronunciation through our educational
> establishments. The way our major news broadcasters in USA speak is a good
> model, although awe-dropping is even sneaking in there.  I heard Charles
> Gibson say "Honk Kong" with the "ah" instead of "awe" vowel recently.  I
> wonder how the Chinese say it.  Thefreedictionary.com has it with "awe"
> vowels, but m-w.com has it with "ah" vowels and with notation that shows
> "ah" vowels.  But m-w.com has a female awe-dropper saying the word.  She
> also mispronounces the word "awe" as "ah" though the notation says "awe".
>
> I believe m-w.com is making many awe-dropping errors.  "Boss" is said with
> the "ah" vowel with notation as such, yet "loss,toss,moss" are said with the
> "awe" vowel.  Why change boss?  It always was with the "awe" vowel as well.
>  This is not good.  Accent affectations can be infectations.
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> see truespel.com
>
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> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:45:23 -0400
> > From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
> > Subject: Re: "some many"?
> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Herb Stahlke
> > Subject: Re: "some many"?
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > This is the first eggcorn I've seen that violates a syntactic
> > cooccurrence restriction. "Some" and "many" don't cooccur, so what
> > does it say about English speakers who write this eggcorn? Clearly
> > it's a feature of writing rather than of speech, although it seems to
> > arise from the phonetic identity of reduced "so" before /m/ and
> > reduced "some." What doesn't make sense is how something that isn't
> > syntactically possible shows up as the written form for [sm-'mEni].
> >
> > Herb
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Laurence Horn
> >> Subject: Re: "some many"?
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> At 9:17 PM +0800 6/11/09, Randy Alexander wrote:
> >>>On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >>>> The "some many" quote was written at this site.
> >>>>
> >>>> =20
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2009/06/10/bring-the-quick-launch-toolba=
> >>>> r-back-in-windows-7/
> >>>>
> >>>> You bring up an intersting point. ? We don't know from quote marks
> >>>>if it's a=
> >>>> ? written quote or spoken quote. ? We need a different symbol. ?
> >>>>We'll make th=
> >>>> at `"yak yak yak"`=2C unless there is a precedent. ? The symbol
> >>>>(`) is locat=
> >>>> ed on my keyboard at top row left with the tilde (~). ? I don't
> >>>>know the nam=
> >>>> e.
> >>>
> >>>If we provide a link, then whether the quote was spoken or written
> >>>should be obvious.
> >>>
> >> Or we can google "some many" and find not just some but many
> >> instances, at least some (if not many) of which do seem to be
> >> eggcornish reconstructions of "so many". Some may be from non-native
> >> speakers--
> >>
> >> why are some many girl getting pregant so young these days?
> >>
> http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lifestyle-discussion/why-are-some-many-girl-getting-pregant-so-young-these-days/t.50698569_16/
> ?
> >>
> >> Many people feel confused why there are some many different prices on
> >> so called "BB/CC" grade of Chinese Poplar plywood?
> >> http://www.globalholz.de/China-Plywood-Grade_and_Construction.doc
> >>
> >> Perhaps we can combine this thread with the earlier one on the
> >> consequences of English globalizing to China.
> >>
> >>
> >> LH
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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