"some many"?

Sat Jun 13 02:46:14 UTC 2009

My kids don't awe-drop.  My wife, who never did before, occasionally does.  It's contagious.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:20:50 -0700
> From: raindoctor at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: "some many"?
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Pedro Alvarez Espinoza
> Subject: Re: "some many"?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> TZ,
>
> Does your kids, if you have any, listen to your instruction wrt
> awe-dropping?
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote=
> :
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: "some many"?
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> The term "some many" perhaps emerged as a kidism (to coin a word). If th=
> e
>> "so" in "so many" is mispoken (via an accent) by an adult as "suh" then "=
> so
>> many" becomes "suh many" which sounds the same to kids as "some many" in
>> fluid speech. So they think they're hearing "some many" instead of "so
>> many" and they start writing it that way, which is phonetially true to wh=
> at
>> they are hearing. Kids can gloss over the fact that it doesn't make sens=
> e.
>> It's gotta be right if the big people say it that way.
>>
>> An example is kids hearing the word "hock" for "hawk" by awe-dropping
>> adults, so they hear the term "hawk your wares" mispoken as "hock your
>> wares", which means to pawn them instead of sell them. Then kids grow up
>> and actually spell the phrase as they've heard it, "hock your wares". Th=
> e
>> adults are thinking "hawk", but as awe-droppers they're saying "hock". T=
> he
>> kids hear "hock" and don't realize what's going on. Dialect inventions,
>> like awe-dropping and vowel swapping, are causing misunderstanding.
>>
>> Points to a need to stablize pronunciation through our educational
>> establishments. The way our major news broadcasters in USA speak is a goo=
> d
>> model, although awe-dropping is even sneaking in there. I heard Charles
>> Gibson say "Honk Kong" with the "ah" instead of "awe" vowel recently. I
>> wonder how the Chinese say it. Thefreedictionary.com has it with "awe"
>> vowels, but m-w.com has it with "ah" vowels and with notation that shows
>> "ah" vowels. But m-w.com has a female awe-dropper saying the word. She
>> also mispronounces the word "awe" as "ah" though the notation says "awe".
>>
>> I believe m-w.com is making many awe-dropping errors. "Boss" is said wit=
> h
>> the "ah" vowel with notation as such, yet "loss,toss,moss" are said with =
> the
>> "awe" vowel. Why change boss? It always was with the "awe" vowel as wel=
> l.
>> This is not good. Accent affectations can be infectations.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:45:23 -0400
>>> From: hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM
>>> Subject: Re: "some many"?
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>> Subject: Re: "some many"?
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>
>>> This is the first eggcorn I've seen that violates a syntactic
>>> cooccurrence restriction. "Some" and "many" don't cooccur, so what
>>> does it say about English speakers who write this eggcorn? Clearly
>>> it's a feature of writing rather than of speech, although it seems to
>>> arise from the phonetic identity of reduced "so" before /m/ and
>>> reduced "some." What doesn't make sense is how something that isn't
>>> syntactically possible shows up as the written form for [sm-'mEni].
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Laurence Horn
>>>> Subject: Re: "some many"?
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>>>
>>>> At 9:17 PM +0800 6/11/09, Randy Alexander wrote:
>>>>>On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>> The "some many" quote was written at this site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =3D20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2009/06/10/bring-the-quick-launch-tool=
> ba=3D
>>>>>> r-back-in-windows-7/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You bring up an intersting point. ? We don't know from quote marks
>>>>>>if it's a=3D
>>>>>> ? written quote or spoken quote. ? We need a different symbol. ?
>>>>>>We'll make th=3D
>>>>>> at `"yak yak yak"`=3D2C unless there is a precedent. ? The symbol
>>>>>>(`) is locat=3D
>>>>>> ed on my keyboard at top row left with the tilde (~). ? I don't
>>>>>>know the nam=3D
>>>>>> e.
>>>>>
>>>>>If we provide a link, then whether the quote was spoken or written
>>>>>should be obvious.
>>>>>
>>>> Or we can google "some many" and find not just some but many
>>>> instances, at least some (if not many) of which do seem to be
>>>> eggcornish reconstructions of "so many". Some may be from non-native
>>>> speakers--
>>>>
>>>> why are some many girl getting pregant so young these days?
>>>>
>> http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lifestyle-discussion/why-are-some-many-gi=
> rl-getting-pregant-so-young-these-days/t.50698569_16/
>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Many people feel confused why there are some many different prices on
>>>> so called "BB/CC" grade of Chinese Poplar plywood?
>>>> http://www.globalholz.de/China-Plywood-Grade_and_Construction.doc
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we can combine this thread with the earlier one on the
>>>> consequences of English globalizing to China.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LH
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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