"to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)

Sun Mar 8 23:19:21 UTC 2009

I should have added that the parents or grandparents of many of these
older people immigrated from eastern Kentucky and eastern Tennessee
between 1880 and 1903, when the Indiana Gas Boom attracted a lot of
industry to the area.  Industry boomed, including the Ball Brothers
Glass Manufacturing Company, which moved from Buffalo to Muncie in
1887.  A lot of us probably grew up on garden raised vegetables
preserved in Ball canning jars.  During the decade after Ball Brothers
move to Muncie they imported whole trainloads of workers from
Appalachia to staff their factory.  In Muncie, the White River divides
the town north/south.  The south side remains heavily industrial, if
less so now, and Upper South in speech, and the north side tends to be
university, professional, and Lower North.  The caught/cot merger
isogloss also seems to bisect the city.  Our oldest child graduated
from Northside High School and has caught/cot.  Our younger two
attended Central High School, after Northside was merged into Central,
and have low back vowel merger.

Herb

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I hear that from older, rural adults in Central Indiana.
>
> Herb
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net> wrote:
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>> Subject:      Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> OK, thank you, Ron.
>>
>> Here's another North Carolinaism, or at least I've never heard it anywhere
>> else, and in fact I've only heard it once there.
>>
>> "early of a morning".  In the sense of "early in the morning".  e.g. "I
>> enjoy sitting outside, early of a morning."
>>
>> Speaker was an early 80ish woman from north central NC (Vance County).
>> Don't know if it was unique to her idiolect, or in general use in that area.
>>
>> Bill Palmer
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 12:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>
>>
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>>> header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
>>> Subject:      Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> It occurs in the speech of both whites and blacks in the speech of people
>>> who were recorded in NC in the 1970s.
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>>>
>>> Date:         Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:19:15
>>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: [ADS-L] "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>>
>>>
>>> I have no scientific research to support my observation, but in my nearly
>>> 50
>>> years of life in the South (5 different states), I do not *recall* ever
>>> hearing a white person use "stay" as as a substitute for "live".  My black
>>> students who showed this preference were mostly from southern states...but
>>> not exclusively, so it is definitely not a purely southern thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Palmer
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <ronbutters at AOL.COM>
>>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 10:24 AM
>>> Subject: Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>>
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>> header -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       ronbutters at AOL.COM
>>>> Subject:      Re: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> If this is true, then why do rural whites (and blacks) in the South use
>>>> "stay" = 'reside'? Is there even a shred of evidence for Margaret's
>>>> explanation? It looks like just another fanciful folk  conjecture.
>>>>
>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>> From: Margaret Lee
>>>> Sender: ADS-L
>>>> To: ADS-L
>>>> ReplyTo: ADS-L
>>>> Subject: Re: [ADS-L] "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>>> Sent: Mar 8, 2009 7:11 AM
>>>>
>>>> This topic was discussed on this list several years ago.
>>>>
>>>> African Americans' use of "stay" for "live" relates to the migration of
>>>> blacks from the South to the North in the early 1900's. Those
>>>> newly-arrived would often "stay" with family members or friends who had
>>>> migrated there earlier until they could find a place of their own--many
>>>> never did, given the harsh economic realities of the time,  and ended up
>>>> "staying" with a family member or friend for long periods of time
>>>> (years),
>>>> or moving from place to place with no permanent residence in which to
>>>> "live." As a result, in the African American community, the term "stay"
>>>> gradually became synonymous with "live,"  though it originally referred
>>>> to
>>>> residing in temporary lodging. I hear it used often by my students who
>>>> have established, permanent addresses.
>>>>
>>>> -- Margaret Lee
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> Margaret G. Lee, Ph.D.
>>>> Adjunct Professor of English & Linguistics
>>>> Department of English
>>>> Hampton University
>>>> Hampton, VA 23668
>>>> 757-727-5769(voice);757-727-5084(fax)
>>>> mlee303 at yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>> --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>>>> Subject: "to stay" vs. "to live" (reside)
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 1:18 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I taught for a number of years @ a historically black university in NC.
>>>> 100% of my students used phrases like "where do you *stay*", or "I don't
>>>> *stay* with my parents"...situations where the average white person would
>>>> use *live*
>>>>
>>>> How might this have originated?
>>>>
>>>> Bill Palmer
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>>
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>>>
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