Wedge and schwa

Mon Mar 9 15:40:26 UTC 2009

Can anybody figure out how to get sound files in this forum to be included in a reasonable way.  We need to hear these sounds.

I may be the only person to have done it.  I've done it in a few ways before but they seam to be either decommissioned or my computer wont'handle them anymore, like qlippits from qlipmedia or daftdoggy.com.

Meanwhile, I went to hear a Beatle tribute band.  They spoke with British accents.  The words "just" and "us" were said ~joost and ~oos, with short oo as in "good" ~good.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0400
> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Wedge and schwa
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Laurence Horn
> Subject: Re: Wedge and schwa
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 2:15 PM +0000 3/8/09, ronbutters at aol.com wrote:
>>I am confused about the difference between wedge and schwa. I
>>thought the former was just a conventional way of indicating the
>>latter. Explain?
>
> They are different vowels in the IPA; the wedge is both further back
> (as the unrounded counterpart of open-o) and a bit lower (or more
> "open") than the schwa. This doesn't reflect the fact that many
> transcribers use schwa for unstressed vowels and wedge for the vowel
> of "cup".
>
> LH
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Herb Stahlke
>>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 07:48:22
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [ADS-L] velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>
>>
>>No. My diphthongs start, at the lowest, at about V. I suppose in
>>careful speech I might start lower. I do have the low back
>>rounded/unrounded contrast in cot/caught but open o only in diphthongs
>>/OI/ and /Or/. I described the system in a note in a paper in Word,
>>"Fortis and lenis obstruents in English."
>>
>>Herb
>>
>>On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Gordon, Matthew J.
>> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Curiouser and curiouser!
>>> Do you have low nuclei for these diphthongs in other contexts?=20
>>> I'm sorry for the questions, but I don't recall having seen this system =
>>> in the literature.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Herb Stahlke
>>> Sent: Sat 3/7/2009 10:30 PM
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>> =20
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> Right on V, but @ is schwa, following Kirshenbaum's ASCII IPA
>>> (http://www.blahedo.org/ascii-ipa.html).
>>>
>>> I should have added to the examples
>>>
>>> /h at Id/ (v.) "hide"
>>> /hVId/ (n.) "hide"
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Gordon, Matthew J.
>>> wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =
>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J."
>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> ------
>>>>
>>>> Herb:=3D20
>>>> Could you clarify your notation? i think you intend @ for script a, =
>>> the =3D
>>>> low back unrounded vowel, V for wedge. Is that right?
>>>>
>>>> -Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Herb Stahlke
>>>> Sent: Sat 3/7/2009 5:48 PM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>> =3D20
>>>> My SE Michigan variant of Inland Northern distinguishes raised and
>>>> lowered diphthong onsets. This looks like Canadian Raising except
>>>> that in certain environments, including open syllables and before /d/
>>>> and /nd/, it's phonemic. So I distinguish the following:
>>>>
>>>> k at Ind "variety, sort"
>>>> kVInd "well-disposed"
>>>>
>>>> r at Und (preposition, as in "round the corner")
>>>> rVUnd (adj., as in "round ball")
>>>>
>>>> h at I (greeting, "hello")
>>>> hVI (adj., "high")
>>>>
>>>> b at rd "poet"
>>>> bVrd "barred"
>>>>
>>>> These contrasts cannot be captured a system based on broadcast AmE or
>>>> any other single dialect, unless, of course, it's mine.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, SE Mich isn't unique. Any regional or social dialect in
>>>> AmE has its own contrasts that require phonemes distinct from some
>>>> putative standard.
>>>>
>>>> Herb
>>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Tom Zurinskas =
>>> =3D
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =3D
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>> =3D
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that tradspel English is actually the oddly spelled =
>>> =3D
>>>> one. But we're all used to it. Once the spelling of the 40 phonemes =
>>> =3D
>>>> are learned one can read anything phonetically in the USA dialect it =
>>> =3D
>>>> represents. Other symbols are needed for the other languages and =3D
>>>> dialects.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do be believe that US dialects are all within the USA English =3D
>>>> foenubet (set of sounds).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:05:22 -0500
>>>>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header =3D
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>> =3D
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must assume that you preface each sentence with the ordinary =3D
>>>> English
>>>>>> spelling because you know that most people won't be able to read the
>>>>>> rather odd language that truespel apparently represents. That rather
>>>>>> suggests that its vaunted transparency has been overstated.
>>>>>> AM
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>>> =3D
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~! indicates my accent (at start and finish)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel
>>>>>>> ~!Taam, Wie doent yue poest yuezeeng truespel~!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure thing. I also would like to find a phonetic converter for IPA
>>>>>>> to show a comparison. Note that all accents vary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~!Sher thheeng. Ie aulsoe wood liek tue fiend u funnedik kunvverter
>>>>>>> for IPA tue shoe u kumppairisin. Noet that aul aksents vairee.~!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically if you run your finger along the phonemes and speak them,
>>>>>>> you are speaking as I speak.
>>>>>>> ~!Basiklee if yue run yer feenger ullaung thu foeneemz and speek
>>>>>>> them, yue aar speekeeng az Ie speek.~!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that stress is on the first syllable or after a double =3D
>>>> consonant.
>>>>>>> ~!Noet that stres iz aan thu ferst silubool or after u dubool
>>>>>>> kaansunint.~!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>>>> see truespel.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:45:48 -0500
>>>>>>>> From: sagehen7470 at ATT.NET
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>> Poster: Alison Murie
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>>>> =3D
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom, why don't you post using truespel?
>>>>>>>> AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: velarized /l/ and Billy Holiday
>>>>>>>>> =3D
>>>> =
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>> =3D
>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I forgot Herb. Books are right and people are wrong. Thanks for
>>>>>>>>> the insight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>>
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>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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