the three "n" s

Tue Mar 24 17:50:41 UTC 2009

Perhaps I should say; "three ways of making the sound ~n".  I don't think the three n sounds (in winter,finger,danger) are qualitatively different very much, since airflow is rerouted through the nose in each case.  The ~n sound is nasal and doesn't matter much what the tongue or mouth does.

I've got a touch of a "g" in "sing", made by the tongue going down off the velum (when saying the word in isolation).   But for "sing a song" the "g" becomes fully formed leading the vowel "a".  Allophones.

Note: I can't say "sing" without pronouncing the vowel as "long e" ~ee before the "ng" or "nk" in the same syllable.  I find this typical of UK or USA English even though dictionaries prescribe short i.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com

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> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:48:30 -0400
> From: paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU
> Subject: Re: the three "n" s
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Paul Johnston
> Subject: Re: the three "n" s
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You mean the n *sounds*--even your description says that. I won't
> reprise everyone else's argument about the "velar n" being a phoneme
> on its own. I guess you have a system like English West Midlanders
> do--where engma IS an allophone. For what t's worth, I've heard such
> systems from other Easterners--including a colleague of mine from
> Providence. I don't have it, though. Now, are you like Birmingham/
> Liverpool or like Stoke-on-Trent? I. e. do you have a /g/ in sings?
> I bet you don't.
>
> Paul
> On Mar 23, 2009, at 2:35 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: the three "n" s
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> I'd say there are 3 ways of say the sound "n", the most often
>> spoken sound of USA English. For each, the tongue forms a dam so
>> air is routed through the nose to make the "n" sound, but tongue
>> placement differs, as per example in these three words; winter,
>> finger, and danger.
>>
>> 1. the front n - Winter - (tongue tip contacts top gums)
>> 2. the back n - Finger - (back of tongue contacts the velum)
>> 3. the middle n - Danger - (whole tongue rises to palate)
>>
>> These "n"s are not noticably different in sound, and are allophones
>> of each other.
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>> see truespel.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:35:36 -0700
>>> From: zwicky at STANFORD.EDU
>>> Subject: act of show
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Arnold Zwicky
>>> Subject: act of show
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> from the Palo Alto Daily News of 21 March 2009, "Palo Alto shooting
>>> suspect still at large", by Diana Samuels, p. 3:
>>>
>>> Police said Gil-Fernandez claimed affiliation with the Norteno street
>>> gang, though that claim may have been mostly an act of show in Palo
>>> Alto, where the Norteno gang doesn't have much of a presence.
>>> .....
>>>
>>> that's "an act of show" 'a show, display, pretense'. a few more
>>> cites:
>>>
>>> I remembered my fiancé’s first time to pay me a visit at home. I
>>> was listening to Metallica. At that time, he thought I was just
>>> playing it to impress him. Later as we knew each other better, he
>>> realized that it was not an act of show but simply my choice of
>>> music.
>>> http://www.anintimateconversation.com/2009_02_01_archive.html
>>>
>>> Gabby,Lynette,Bree,Susan and Eddie are all part of a clan that has
>>> secrets lies and webs of drama they all live in such a perfect area
>>> yet knowing all the perfection is just an act of show!!!
>>> http://www.tv.com/desperate-housewives/show/24641/
>>> reviews.html&flag=1&pg_rev=4
>>>
>>> Col. Gianfranco Cavallo of the Carabinieri paramilitary police said
>>> the bomb appeared to be an "act of show" rather than an attack
>>> planned
>>> to make victims.
>>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bomb-damages-cars-
>>> in-downtown-rome-672350.html
>>>
>>> Actually it was our state governor, a female democrat (Ks) that
>>> ordered them sent! I am sure that it was more of an act of show than
>>> anything else.
>>> http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/12/2537681-us-plans-
>>> for-mexico-border-violence
>>>
>>> there are also hits for "act of show-off"
>>>
>>> do you think if I show up with my guitar it won't be weired? won't
>>> people think of it as an act of show off?
>>> http://id.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080421191749AAV8jNh
>>> [Yahoo! Indonesia]
>>>
>>> Again, McLeod depicts Ganda Singh as a shallow person of
>>> pretentious nature whose ego was inflated by the mere receipt of a
>>> book from McLeod and as an act of show-off, he carried it round under
>>> his arm, with the title prominently displayed for all to see.
>>> http://sikhspectrum.com/052007/mcleod/ch5.htm
>>>
>>> They dabble in esoteric themes like mysticism, sexual freedom,
>>> death, the after-life and such things, as an act of show off.
>>> http://ia.rediff.com/movies/2008/dec/01review-pakal-nakshatrangal.htm
>>>
>>> unlike the "act of show" examples, these seem to be from various
>>> asian
>>> varieties of english.
>>>
>>> arnold
>>>
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