"could care less"

Tue May 26 14:54:14 UTC 2009

What, no "anchor clanker"?

JL

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "could care less"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Semper Fi indeed, Wilson.
>
> I retired from a 26 year Navy career in 1985.  The closest rate (what the
> Navy calls enlisted ranks...only officers have "rank" in the Navy), I
> imagine, to the Army MOS you describe would probably be a seaman
> apprentice,
> doomed to labor in the deck force, until given the opportunity to "strike"
> for another rating (occupational speciality).  Some, of course, remain in
> the deck force, and become "Boatswain's Mates"...informally and
> affectionately known as "rope chokers".  There are many such nicknames for
> the various technical (and not so technical)specialties, e.g.
> Gunners Mate..."Cannnon Cocker (or, less delicately, muzzle fucker)
> Shipfitter (piping systems tech)..."turd chaser"
> Signalman..."skivvy waver"
> Ship's Cook.."stewburner" or "bellyrobber"
> Hospital Corpsman..."pecker checker"
> etc, etc.
>
> I just grit my teeth when journalists,et al, use "soldier" as a generic
> term
> for any member of the armed forces.
>
> I do love the US Army, served w/ many soldiers in Viet nam, but they don't
> man our ships.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: "could care less"
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "could care less"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Semper Fi, Bill!
> >
> > I had a cousin who was a great rarity, a black Marine who saw combat
> > in WWII, as opposed to serving as a stevedore or longshoreman.
> >
> > I have no idea what the Navy term for this
> > M[ilitary]O[ccupation]S[peciality] (as the jargon was in my day) is,
> > but the Army is/was totally straightforward: MOS 055 Common Laborer. I
> > held this MOS when I labored as a fireman, firing furnaces at the
> > late, unlamented "armpit of the Army" (FWIW, this is the form in which
> > I first - 1959 - heard this now fairly common expression), Fort
> > Devens, MA.
> >
> > One of my best friends has an older brother who, poor guy, spent his
> > career in one of the lamest specialties known to military man: supply
> > sergeant.
> >
> > -Wilson
>  > â?"â?"â?"
> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> > -----
> > -Mark Twain
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>
> > wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> >> header -----------------------
> >> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
> >> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: "could care less"
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> but never used interchangeably by Marines.
> >>
> >> Bill Palmer
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:36 PM
> >> Subject: Re: "could care less"
> >>
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>> header -----------------------
> >>> Sender: Â  Â  Â  American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster: Â  Â  Â  Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>> Subject: Â  Â  Â Re: "could care less"
> >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, I do remember the discussion WRT "marine" vs. "soldier" =
> >>> "marine." It seems to me that the conclusion was that only a person
> >>> who wouldn't have the sense to capitalize "Marine" in any of its
> >>> military uses, instead of merely as part of the phrase, "_Marine
> >>> Corps_" / "_Marine Corp_," would be dumb enough to refer to a marine
> >>> as a "soldier." But, as its fans know, NCIS features a group commanded
> >>> by an ex-jarhead and whose military characters are 99.44% marines.
> >>> Nevertheless, "marine" and "soldier" are used pretty much
> >>> interchangeably, at least by the show's writers and actors.
> >>>
> >>> -Wilson
> >>> Ã¢?"Ã¢?"Ã¢?"
> >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>> -----
> >>> -Mark Twain
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> >>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> >>>> header -----------------------
> >>>> Sender: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Â American Dialect Society
> >>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Â Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>> Subject: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Re: "could care less"
> >>>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Some of the confusion about "brigs" and "stockades," along with "DIs"
> >>>> and
> >>>> "drill sergeants" and some similar items must come from the mere
> >>>> existence
> >>>> of the Marine Corps as a kind of halfway point between navy and army
> >>>> patoises.
> >>>>
> >>>> Whether a Marine "is" a soldier has been discussed here before. Ã, If
> I
> >>>> neglected to cite Bill Clinton then, I'll do it now: "It depends on
> >>>> what
> >>>> yo=
> >>>> u
> >>>> mean by 'is.'"
> >>>>
> >>>> JL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> Sender: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Â American Dialect Society
> >>>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>>> Poster: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Â Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>> Subject: Ã, Â Ã, Â Ã, Re: "could care less"
>  >>>>>
> >>>>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >>>> ------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> FWIW, the first person that I ever heard use "I could care less,"
> >>>>> after I had been in training perhaps four hours, was our black
> >>>>> Puerto-Rican barracks sergeant, who had a *very* thick accent. I
> >>>>> thought first that he merely lacked sufficient command of English to
> >>>>> realize that he had misspoken. But, within a day or so, it became
> >>>>> clear that *all* members of the cadre used the phrase minus the
> >>>>> negation hundreds of times a day each. By contrast, the phrase
> >>>>> practically doesn't occur "on civvy street" (AFAICR, this was a
> >>>>> WWII-ish expression, already obsolete by the time of my time) any
> more
> >>>>> often than Army "stockade" is correctly used in place of Navy "brig."
> >>>>> I once saw a reference in the NYT to the "brig" at Fort Leavenworth.
> >>>>> Would the NYT refer to Broadway as "Hollywood Boulevard"?!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, "brig" is at least an improvement over the once *very* popular
> >>>>> "guardhouse." Until I was actually on guard duty for the first time -
> >>>>> in the middle of a thunderstorm, scared shitless that my individual
> >>>>> weapon, muzzle pointed skyward at right shoulder, arms! would call
> >>>>> down the lightning from the clouds - I had no idea that a
> "guardhouse"
> >>>>> was literally a structure in which guards were housed - when not
> >>>>> actively engaged in taking charge of their posts and and all other
> >>>>> military property in view - and not a military jail or prison, for
> >>>>> which "stockade" is the proper term in military jargon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Wilson
> >>>>> =96=96=96
> >>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint
> to
> >>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >>>>> -----
> >>>>> -Mark Twain
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Arnold Zwicky <zwicky at stanford.edu
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>> > Sender: =C2 Ã, =C2 Ã, =C2 Ã, American Dialect Society
> >>>>> > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Poster: =C2 Ã, =C2 Ã, =C2 Ã, Arnold Zwicky <zwicky at STANFORD.EDU>
> >>>>> > Subject: =C2 Ã, =C2 Ã, =C2 Re: "could care less"
>  >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >>>> ------
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On May 24, 2009, at 8:04 AM, i wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> Wilson's reports having first heard it used in the Army in the
> late
> >>>>> >> '50s, and also that none of the recruits in his training company
> >>>>> >> had
> >>>>> >> heard it before (so that there was much discussion about in the
> >>>>> >> barracks). =C2 so it was new *for them* (though it became routine
> >>>>> >> "military jargon" for them). =C2 but of course others were using
> >>>>> >> it --
> >>>>> >> after all, the uses they first heard came from *somewhere*.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > this is a partial mis-report (i should never rely on my memory).
> >>>>> > wilson said it was new to *the recruits*, but that for *seasoned
> >>>>> > soldiers*, it was routinely used as "military jargon".
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > arnold
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
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