"could care less"

Bill Palmer w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET
Tue May 26 15:17:43 UTC 2009 

Well, "anchor clanker" is typically used by Marines (and maybe soldiers, I
don't know) to refer to any navyman, regardless of his specialty.  Marines
also use "squid" for the same purpose.

Navymen respond with "seagoing bellhop", "ground pounder", and others I
can't recall.

It's a lot like Duke & UNC...rivals, but not so good natured.


Bill Palmer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Lighter" <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: "could care less"


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "could care less"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What, no "anchor clanker"?
>
> JL
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Bill Palmer
> <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>wrot=
> e:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>> Subject:      Re: "could care less"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>>
>> Semper Fi indeed, Wilson.
>>
>> I retired from a 26 year Navy career in 1985.  The closest rate (what the
>> Navy calls enlisted ranks...only officers have "rank" in the Navy), I
>> imagine, to the Army MOS you describe would probably be a seaman
>> apprentice,
>> doomed to labor in the deck force, until given the opportunity to
>> "strike=
> "
>> for another rating (occupational speciality).  Some, of course, remain in
>> the deck force, and become "Boatswain's Mates"...informally and
>> affectionately known as "rope chokers".  There are many such nicknames
>> fo=
> r
>> the various technical (and not so technical)specialties, e.g.
>> Gunners Mate..."Cannnon Cocker (or, less delicately, muzzle fucker)
>> Shipfitter (piping systems tech)..."turd chaser"
>> Signalman..."skivvy waver"
>> Ship's Cook.."stewburner" or "bellyrobber"
>> Hospital Corpsman..."pecker checker"
>> etc, etc.
>>
>> I just grit my teeth when journalists,et al, use "soldier" as a generic
>> term
>> for any member of the armed forces.
>>
>> I do love the US Army, served w/ many soldiers in Viet nam, but they
>> don'=
> t
>> man our ships.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: "could care less"
>>
>>
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> > header -----------------------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Re: "could care less"
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >
>> > Semper Fi, Bill!
>> >
>> > I had a cousin who was a great rarity, a black Marine who saw combat
>> > in WWII, as opposed to serving as a stevedore or longshoreman.
>> >
>> > I have no idea what the Navy term for this
>> > M[ilitary]O[ccupation]S[peciality] (as the jargon was in my day) is,
>> > but the Army is/was totally straightforward: MOS 055 Common Laborer. I
>> > held this MOS when I labored as a fireman, firing furnaces at the
>> > late, unlamented "armpit of the Army" (FWIW, this is the form in which
>> > I first - 1959 - heard this now fairly common expression), Fort
>> > Devens, MA.
>> >
>> > One of my best friends has an older brother who, poor guy, spent his
>> > career in one of the lamest specialties known to military man: supply
>> > sergeant.
>> >
>> > -Wilson
>>  > =E2?"=E2?"=E2?"
>> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>> > come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> > -----
>> > -Mark Twain
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at bellsouth.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> >> header -----------------------
>> >> Sender: =C2  =C2  =C2  American Dialect Society
>> >> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.ED=
> U>
>> >> Poster: =C2  =C2  =C2  Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>
>> >> Subject: =C2  =C2  =C2 Re: "could care less"
>> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >>
>> >> but never used interchangeably by Marines.
>> >>
>> >> Bill Palmer
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> >> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:36 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: "could care less"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> >>> header -----------------------
>> >>> Sender: =C2  =C2  =C2  American Dialect Society
>> >>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.E=
> DU>
>> >>> Poster: =C2  =C2  =C2  Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>> Subject: =C2  =C2  =C2 Re: "could care less"
>> >>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah, I do remember the discussion WRT "marine" vs. "soldier" =3D
>> >>> "marine." It seems to me that the conclusion was that only a person
>> >>> who wouldn't have the sense to capitalize "Marine" in any of its
>> >>> military uses, instead of merely as part of the phrase, "_Marine
>> >>> Corps_" / "_Marine Corp_," would be dumb enough to refer to a marine
>> >>> as a "soldier." But, as its fans know, NCIS features a group
>> >>> commande=
> d
>> >>> by an ex-jarhead and whose military characters are 99.44% marines.
>> >>> Nevertheless, "marine" and "soldier" are used pretty much
>> >>> interchangeably, at least by the show's writers and actors.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Wilson
>> >>> =C3=A2?"=C3=A2?"=C3=A2?"
>> >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint
>> >>> t=
> o
>> >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >>> -----
>> >>> -Mark Twain
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>> >>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> >>>> header -----------------------
>> >>>> Sender: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 American Dialect Society
>> >>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>>> Poster: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 Jonathan Lighter
>> >>>> <wuxxmupp2000 at GM=
> AIL.COM>
>> >>>> Subject: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, Re: "could care less"
>> >>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Some of the confusion about "brigs" and "stockades," along with
>> >>>> "DIs=
> "
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> "drill sergeants" and some similar items must come from the mere
>> >>>> existence
>> >>>> of the Marine Corps as a kind of halfway point between navy and army
>> >>>> patoises.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Whether a Marine "is" a soldier has been discussed here before.
>> >>>> =C3,=
> If
>> I
>> >>>> neglected to cite Bill Clinton then, I'll do it now: "It depends on
>> >>>> what
>> >>>> yo=3D
>> >>>> u
>> >>>> mean by 'is.'"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> JL
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>>> -----------------------
>> >>>>> Sender: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 American Dialect Society
>> >>>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>>>> Poster: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>>>> Subject: =C3, =C2 =C3, =C2 =C3, Re: "could care less"
>>  >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>> >>>> ------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> FWIW, the first person that I ever heard use "I could care less,"
>> >>>>> after I had been in training perhaps four hours, was our black
>> >>>>> Puerto-Rican barracks sergeant, who had a *very* thick accent. I
>> >>>>> thought first that he merely lacked sufficient command of English
>> >>>>> t=
> o
>> >>>>> realize that he had misspoken. But, within a day or so, it became
>> >>>>> clear that *all* members of the cadre used the phrase minus the
>> >>>>> negation hundreds of times a day each. By contrast, the phrase
>> >>>>> practically doesn't occur "on civvy street" (AFAICR, this was a
>> >>>>> WWII-ish expression, already obsolete by the time of my time) any
>> more
>> >>>>> often than Army "stockade" is correctly used in place of Navy
>> >>>>> "brig=
> ."
>> >>>>> I once saw a reference in the NYT to the "brig" at Fort
>> >>>>> Leavenworth=
> .
>> >>>>> Would the NYT refer to Broadway as "Hollywood Boulevard"?!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Well, "brig" is at least an improvement over the once *very*
>> >>>>> popula=
> r
>> >>>>> "guardhouse." Until I was actually on guard duty for the first
>> >>>>> time=
> -
>> >>>>> in the middle of a thunderstorm, scared shitless that my individual
>> >>>>> weapon, muzzle pointed skyward at right shoulder, arms! would call
>> >>>>> down the lightning from the clouds - I had no idea that a
>> "guardhouse"
>> >>>>> was literally a structure in which guards were housed - when not
>> >>>>> actively engaged in taking charge of their posts and and all other
>> >>>>> military property in view - and not a military jail or prison, for
>> >>>>> which "stockade" is the proper term in military jargon.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Wilson
>> >>>>> =3D96=3D96=3D96
>> >>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint
>> to
>> >>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >>>>> -----
>> >>>>> -Mark Twain
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Arnold Zwicky
>> >>>>> <zwicky at stanford.ed=
> u
>> >
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>>> -----------------------
>> >>>>> > Sender: =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 =C3, American Dialect Society
>> >>>>> > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU=3D
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > Poster: =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 =C3, Arnold Zwicky
>> >>>>> > <zwicky at ST=
> ANFORD.EDU>
>> >>>>> > Subject: =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 =C3, =3DC2 Re: "could care less"
>>  >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
>> >>>> ------
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On May 24, 2009, at 8:04 AM, i wrote:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> Wilson's reports having first heard it used in the Army in the
>> late
>> >>>>> >> '50s, and also that none of the recruits in his training company
>> >>>>> >> had
>> >>>>> >> heard it before (so that there was much discussion about in the
>> >>>>> >> barracks). =3DC2 so it was new *for them* (though it became
>> >>>>> >> rout=
> ine
>> >>>>> >> "military jargon" for them). =3DC2 but of course others were
>> >>>>> >> usi=
> ng
>> >>>>> >> it --
>> >>>>> >> after all, the uses they first heard came from *somewhere*.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > this is a partial mis-report (i should never rely on my memory).
>> >>>>> > wilson said it was new to *the recruits*, but that for *seasoned
>> >>>>> > soldiers*, it was routinely used as "military jargon".
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > arnold
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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