Hollywood and "SIR!"

[Dave Wilton]

Things were a bit different in the 1980s.

The command was always "Attention!" (or "Tinch-HUT," etc.) when an officer
approached, indoors or outdoors. The officer would reply with "at ease" if
he or she wanted to speak to the soldiers, or "carry on" or "as you were"
(the phrase was indeed used just this way) if he or she were just walking
past. If entering a building, especially a barracks, often the officer would
call out "as you were" preemptively while walking through the door so that
soldiers wouldn't be jumping to attention time and time again. And often
there was a standing rule in office environments not call everyone to
attention every time an officer walked into the building--in our
headquarters, for instance, only the battalion commander or someone senior
to him would bring people to attention.

A variation for soldiers at work was that only the senior NCO came to
attention and saluted the approaching officer. The others would keep on
working unless the officer addressed them individually, in which case the
soldier would come to attention and reply.

And all of this was just in garrison. (If in the field, all this went by the
wayside. There is no coming to attention or saluting in the field. Saluting
is a good way to get your officers killed by snipers, and popping to
attention can get anyone killed.)

Another thing that movies get wrong is that "at ease" is not the same as
"carry on." The command "at ease" means the soldiers are to stand silently
and look the officer or NCO, but no specific posture is required. If in
formation, the soldiers may move, but the right foot must stay planted in
the same position. "Carry on" or "as you were" means exactly that--go back
to what you were doing.

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Wilson Gray
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:03 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Hollywood and "SIR!"

I'm familiar with this "Sir! Yes SIR!" bit only from movies and books
about the Marine Corps. From books, but not necessariliy from movies,
I've also gotten the impression that, in the Corps, private soldiers
must salute NCO's as well as warranted and commissioned officers. For
example, I either read or heard in a movie that a guard's first
general order is:

"To walk my post from flank to flank and _salute everyone above my rank_!"

Presumably, this was meant as a joke, the actual general order being:

"To take charge of this post and all military property in view!"

But, in the Army, it was made quite clear that you did not "render a
hand-salute" to NCO's.

As for shouting, outside of the typical shouting of orders *by*
officers and NCO's, an EM who was first to see an officer shouted only
"At ease!" and then only when an officer unexpectedly appeared, as in
the barracks, or suddenly appeared, as in the mess hall. The officer
shouted in reply, "Carry on!" If the EM were outdoors, the shout was
"Tinch-HUT" or some phonetic variant thereof by the first EM to make
eye-contact with the officer. (To the extent possible, EM outdoors,
even if they were NCO's, always pretended to be unaware of the
presence of an officer. Unless, of course, the officer would be
discommoded thereby. Officers carrying babies or bags of groceries
were always saluted, it being the case that the officer receiving the
salute was forced by custom and by law to come to attention himself
and return the salute, a real pain in the ass, if the officer had to
put a baby or a couple of 50-lb. grocery bags on the ground in order
to do this.)  Those EM facing the officer would "assume the position
of attention and render a hand-salute," which he would return. Other
EM not facing the officer would merely assume the position. To these,
the officer would say, using command voice, "Carry on!"

(Oddly enough, whenever I saw this happen, it struck me as pretty
cool, because it was so robotic. Strange head on my part, I guess.)

The "As you were!" commonly heard in movies in place of "Carry on!"
was used only when someone in charge caught himself making a mistake:

"This being the American Name - as you were! - the American *Dialect*
Society listserv ..."

Anyway, "Sir! Yes SIR" is un-Army. A simple "Yessir" or even "Okay,
sir", if the officer is cool with that, is sufficient.

-Wilson


On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
-----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Hollywood and "SIR!"
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> Some years ago  I began to notice that movies about the Vietnam War were
> starting to represent enlisted troops in the field as addressing or
> responding to commissioned officers with the barked word "SIR!"  This was
> notably the case in _We Were Soldiers_ (2002), set in 1965.
>
> I don't recall _ever_ hearing this ultra-hearty intonation in earlier
films
> about World War II, Korea, or even Vietnam.
> Nor can I recall reading any comment to the effect that it was current. In
> basic training, maybe, or at West Point.  But elsewhere?
>
> My suspicion is that this "SIR! Yes, SIR!" is a latter-day (circa
> 1990?) affectation, though I wouldn't be surprised to find that movies
have
> reinforced it.  ("HOO-ah!" and "OO-rah!" both seem to post-date Vietnam as
> well: they were discussed here a few years ago.)
>
> Wilson, Bill, Jim, Dave, et al. What say you?
>
>
> JL
>
>
> --
> "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
> Platypus"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
-Wilson
---
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-Mark Twain

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