Hollywood and "SIR!"

[Bill Palmer]

Saluting rules vary from service to service.  In the Navy and USMC, one must
not salute, or return one, when "uncovered"...sans headgear. Saluting
uncovered is OK in USA and USAF.  In the Navy, if one's right hand is
encumbered in some way, the salute must be rendered (or returned, as the
case may be) w/ the left. No left handed salutes in the USMC...don't know
about USAF or USA.

NCO's are not saluted in the USMC. The second (or maybe it's the third)
general order for a sentry is "to salute all officers and all colors not
cased"

In the USN, "yes (or "no"), sir" is only a response to a question.  The only
proper response to a command is "Aye, aye, sir" which means that the order
is understood and will be carried out.

As a general rule (with some exceptions) in situations where USA/USAF would
call"attention", USN/USMC would use "attention on deck"

Bill Palmer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wilson Gray" <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Hollywood and "SIR!"


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Hollywood and "SIR!"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm familiar with this "Sir! Yes SIR!" bit only from movies and books
> about the Marine Corps. From books, but not necessariliy from movies,
> I've also gotten the impression that, in the Corps, private soldiers
> must salute NCO's as well as warranted and commissioned officers. For
> example, I either read or heard in a movie that a guard's first
> general order is:
>
> "To walk my post from flank to flank and _salute everyone above my rank_!"
>
> Presumably, this was meant as a joke, the actual general order being:
>
> "To take charge of this post and all military property in view!"
>
> But, in the Army, it was made quite clear that you did not "render a
> hand-salute" to NCO's.
>
> As for shouting, outside of the typical shouting of orders *by*
> officers and NCO's, an EM who was first to see an officer shouted only
> "At ease!" and then only when an officer unexpectedly appeared, as in
> the barracks, or suddenly appeared, as in the mess hall. The officer
> shouted in reply, "Carry on!" If the EM were outdoors, the shout was
> "Tinch-HUT" or some phonetic variant thereof by the first EM to make
> eye-contact with the officer. (To the extent possible, EM outdoors,
> even if they were NCO's, always pretended to be unaware of the
> presence of an officer. Unless, of course, the officer would be
> discommoded thereby. Officers carrying babies or bags of groceries
> were always saluted, it being the case that the officer receiving the
> salute was forced by custom and by law to come to attention himself
> and return the salute, a real pain in the ass, if the officer had to
> put a baby or a couple of 50-lb. grocery bags on the ground in order
> to do this.)  Those EM facing the officer would "assume the position
> of attention and render a hand-salute," which he would return. Other
> EM not facing the officer would merely assume the position. To these,
> the officer would say, using command voice, "Carry on!"
>
> (Oddly enough, whenever I saw this happen, it struck me as pretty
> cool, because it was so robotic. Strange head on my part, I guess.)
>
> The "As you were!" commonly heard in movies in place of "Carry on!"
> was used only when someone in charge caught himself making a mistake:
>
> "This being the American Name - as you were! - the American *Dialect*
> Society listserv ..."
>
> Anyway, "Sir! Yes SIR" is un-Army. A simple "Yessir" or even "Okay,
> sir", if the officer is cool with that, is sufficient.
>
> -Wilson
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Hollywood and "SIR!"
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Some years ago  I began to notice that movies about the Vietnam War were
>> starting to represent enlisted troops in the field as addressing or
>> responding to commissioned officers with the barked word "SIR!"  This was
>> notably the case in _We Were Soldiers_ (2002), set in 1965.
>>
>> I don't recall _ever_ hearing this ultra-hearty intonation in earlier
>> films
>> about World War II, Korea, or even Vietnam.
>> Nor can I recall reading any comment to the effect that it was current.
>> In
>> basic training, maybe, or at West Point.  But elsewhere?
>>
>> My suspicion is that this "SIR! Yes, SIR!" is a latter-day (circa
>> 1990?) affectation, though I wouldn't be surprised to find that movies
>> have
>> reinforced it.  ("HOO-ah!" and "OO-rah!" both seem to post-date Vietnam
>> as
>> well: they were discussed here a few years ago.)
>>
>> Wilson, Bill, Jim, Dave, et al. What say you?
>>
>>
>> JL
>>
>>
>> --
>> "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
>> Platypus"
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -Wilson
> ---
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -Mark Twain
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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