Off-list

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Thu Sep 17 23:12:47 UTC 2009 

His conservative stance on social issues is probably what earned him
his cardinalate, despite his being not only a Jesuit, but also an
American Jesuit. At the beginning of JP II's rule, it was rumored that
the Jesuits has voted in an American as General, an historical first,
needless to say. JP II blocked his inauguration and appointed a
Sardinian Jesuit as interim General until he could get a General more
to his liking elected.

The rumor part is that the unacceptable General was an American. The
rest was in the news, especially the in National Catholic Reporter. to
which I am proud to boast that I am a charter subscriber, and in
America, the official organ of the American Jesuits purposed toward
the lay reader.

The good cardinal is not the only Jesuit that I've known to have a
skewed view of social issues. One time, in high school, I was chatting
with the Rev. Rudolf "Ich komm' von Sachsen, wo die schoene Maedchen
wachsen" Bischof, SJ, the Treasurer of Saint Louis University High
School. He remarked, "You know, I was instrumental in getting colored
admitted to this school." "Really?" "Yes. At the board meeting, I
said, 'We might as well let them in. The archbishop (Joseph Ritter,
who, by arciespicopal fiat backed with the threat of excommunication,
had desegregated the Catholic schools of the state of Missouri, as of
the fall semester, 1945. He was perhaps the highest-ranking member of
the American hierarchy - he was elevated to the cardinalate - ever to
involve himself pro-actively in the struggle against racism. But that
first attempt came to naught. In June, 1945, I was a student at
Visitation parish's 100%-black-except-for-the-faculty grade school for
colored. In June, 1950, I graduated from the formerly 100%-white
Visitation parish school, now 100% black except for the faculty. Even
the threat of burning in hell for all eternity is useless against
systemic racism) is going to make us do it, anyway.'"

Whoa, Fr. Bischof! You the man!

-Wilson

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Shapiro, Fred <fred.shapiro at yale.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Shapiro, Fred" <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Off-list
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dulles was a utility infielder for the Gashouse Gang...  Seriously, he was the son of the notorious John Foster Dulles and nephew of the notorious Allen Dulles.  He himself, as a conservative theologian opposed to changing church policies on abortion, artificial birth control, priestly celibacy, the ordination of women, and punishment of priestly child abuse, was undoubtedly notorious to some people.
>
> Fred Shapiro
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Doyle [cdoyle at UGA.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Off-list
>
> First, was Dulles a St. Louis cardinal?
>
> Second, was he the son of the notorious Alan Dulles--who was, as I recall, brother to the notorious John Foster?
>
> Back in the 1960s or so, a new consolidated school was built in Eagle Lake, TX, (in the county where I grew up).  They named it John Foster Dulles High School.  I wonder if they've ever wished they could change the name.  Probably not.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Charlie
>
> ---- Original message ----
>>Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:37:18 -0400
>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>)
>>Subject: Re: "Lord Alfred" or "Alfred, Lord"?
>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: "Lord Alfred" or "Alfred, Lord"?
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>In addition to his renown in the field of theology and his being one of the
>>few Jesuits ever to be elevated to the cardinalate in the history of the
>>Catholic Church, Avery,Cardinal Dulles is known for being the nephew of the
>>late John, Foster Dulles. ;-)
>>-Wilson
>>
>>On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com> wrote=
>>:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: "Lord Alfred" or "Alfred, Lord"?
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>------
>>>
>>> A few years ago, my wife and I attended a seminar at Luther Seminary
>>> in St. Paul, MN, on the Lutheran-Catholic Joint Declaration on the
>>> Doctrine of Justification.  One of the speakers was Avery Cardinal
>>> Dulles, who was introduced and referred to that way by both Lutheran
>>> and Catholic participants.  The form isn't completely gone.
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>> > Subject:      Re: "Lord Alfred" or "Alfred, Lord"?
>>> >
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>------
>>> >
>>> > Well, they've done away with {Forename,] Cardinal [Surname]! What did y=
>>ou
>>> > expect?! Expect "Lord George G. Byron" any day, now.
>>> > -Wilson
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>>> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >> -----------------------
>>> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> >> Subject:      "Lord Alfred" or "Alfred, Lord"?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>=3D
>>> > ------
>>> >>
>>> >> Smiling my sardonic "what-did-you-expect?" smile, I used to correct
>>> >> students
>>> >> who infallibly referred to "Lord Alfred Tennyson."
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd still do it, although these days I can't muster even a sardonic
>>> smile=3D
>>> > .
>>> >> Google shows that "Alfred, Lord Tennyson,"
>>> >> outnumbers the other chap by nearly ten to one, at least in raw hits.
>>> >>
>>> >> But "Lord Alfred" is on the rise:
>>> >>
>>> >> 2009 Samantha Henig "Periscope" in _Newsweek_ (Jan. 12): Lord Alfred
>>> >> Tennyson's "The Charge of the Light Brigade."
>>> >> JL
>>> >> --
>>> >> "There You Go Again...Using Reason on the Planet of the Duck-Billed
>>> >> Platypus"
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --=3D20
>>> > -Wilson
>>> > =3D96=3D96=3D96
>>> > All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
>>> com=3D
>>> > e
>>> > from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> > =3D96Mark Twain
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--=20
>>-Wilson
>>=96=96=96
>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to com=
>>e
>>from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>=96Mark Twain
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain

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