Teenglish from England

Fri Sep 18 15:10:22 UTC 2009

So for the new word "teenglish", you would foespel it ~tinglish with both i's being the same pronunciation?  Yet would "teen" be foespeld ~tin.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Herb Stahlke
> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a claim Tom has maintained for as long as I've read his
> postings on this list. In an earlier thread on the topic several
> years ago, it appeared that some speakers hear the vowel as closer to
> /i/ and others, like me, have a vowel closer to the vowel of "in". I
> don't recall whether anyone claimed that the vowel is in fact tense,
> and I, like many, find tense, non-low vowels before /N/ pretty much
> impossible in English.
>
> Herb
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Scot LaFaive wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Scot LaFaive
>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>
>>> When it comes to words like "English" which begin with letter "e" (so
>>> there's no visual letter "i" influence) and it's pronounced in talking
>>> dictionaries, surely we all can hear long e ~ee (as in teen) not short i,
>>> (as in tin). And yet dictionaries persist in showing the vowel as short i
>>> while the speaker audibly says long e.
>>
>>
>> Am I getting this right? Is the argument that the first vowel of "English"
>> is pronounced the same as the vowel in "teen" in Standard English?
>>
>> Scot
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Herb Stahlke
>>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> I recall being taught as a child that "English" started with a lax
>>> /I/, as in "in". This was to correct those who used a spelling
>>> pronunciation with lax /E/ as in "en". None of my teachers or fellow
>>> SE Michiganders, at least that I knew at the time, used the tense
>>> vowel /i/ as in "eve". I am aware that some speakers do have the
>>> tense vowel before /N/ and some don't. I am one who does not. Of
>>> course, even for lax vowel speakers like me, the vowel is raised
>>> slightly before a velar nasal. This is allophonic and does not change
>>> it to tense /i/ for those speakers.
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Tom Zurinskas
>>> wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Good one Wilson. And you try to tell the teacher that it's the way the
>>> teacher also says it too, yet he would not believe.
>>>>
>>>> When it comes to words like "English" which begin with letter "e" (so
>>> there's no visual letter "i" influence) and it's pronounced in talking
>>> dictionaries, surely we all can hear long e ~ee (as in teen) not short i,
>>> (as in tin). And yet dictionaries persist in showing the vowel as short i
>>> while the speaker audibly says long e. Boogles my mind and has done so
>>> since learning reading in 2nd grade.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>>>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a tense [i] in some dialects. Or maybe only in some idiolects. I
>>> fough=
>>>>> t
>>>>> TZ's fight in Articulatory Phonetics 101 at Davis. The prof responded,
>>>>> "Well, if that's the way *you* say it ..."
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Laurence Horn wrot=
>>>>> e:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Laurence Horn
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Teenglish from England
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 11:03 AM +0000 9/16/09, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>>>>New teenage words from England (perhaps not only England)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213626/Teenglish-From-Frape-Neek=
>>>>> -words-used-teenagers-baffle-adults.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When I say the word "teenglish" my tongue goes alveolar (top front),
>>>>>>>but for English it's velar (top back). Yet the vowel befor the "n"
>>>>>>>is still long e, ~ee. ~teenglish ~Eenglish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>>>>>>>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and for me "Teenglish" (the variety of English associated with teens)
>>>>>> differs from "Tinglish" (the variety of English that makes you
>>>>>> tingle) in and only in the quality of the vowel before the nasal,
>>>>>> which is additional evidence that the vowel in the latter case (or in
>>>>>> "English", or "Singlish" [Singaporean English]) is a lax [I], not a
>>>>>> tense [i]. (Of course I might also render the former with an
>>>>>> alveolar consonant if I wanted to stress the morphological structure
>>>>>> of "teen" + "English".)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LH
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --=20
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>> =96=96=96
>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint to
>>> com=
>>>>> e
>>>>> from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>> =96Mark Twain
>>>>>
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