Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander

Thu Apr 22 19:47:30 UTC 2010

In IPA they are distinguished as follows:

hʌdlɪŋ (a small 'hud')

hʌdl̩ɪŋ (pres. ptl. of 'huddle')

Small vertical stroke goes under the l in official version.
The classic example of this contrast is 'coddling' vs. 'codling' ('baby cod'). Discussed and settled in the late nineteen forties if I recall my history.

Geoffrey S. Nathan
Faculty Liaison, C&IT
and Associate Professor, Linguistics Program
+1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
+1 (313) 577-8621 (English/Linguistics)

----- "Tom Zurinskas" <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

> From: "Tom Zurinskas" <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:38:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't dispute that "huddle" is two syllables, but notation that
> would write it "hudl" would be bad because how would you foespel
> (phonetically spell) "huddling" to show 3 syllables.  To foespel it
> "hudling" would look like 2 syllables.  In truespel it's ~hudool and
> ~hudooleeng (where ~ool is as in "wool".
>
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Geoff Nathan
> > Subject: Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Pretty much 'what Paul said'.
> >
> > In addition, for many Americans, /t/ before /l/ is actually
> pronounced as a glottal stop--i.e. there is no tongue-tip contact at
> all, in words like 'cutlet', 'outlaw'.
> > For examples like 'bottle', 'huddle' the /l/ is a whole syllable by
> itself (something that Mr. Z has disputed, but this is confirmed by
> spectrograms and x-rays), and the sound is actually a [d] for many
> speakers, not even a flap.
> > The t-l affricate simply doesn't exist in most dialects of English,
> but you can hear it twice in the Icelandic example provided (once
> between vowels--'Fjalla', and once in word-final position in 'Jokull'
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > Geoffrey S. Nathan
> > Faculty Liaison, C&IT
> > and Associate Professor, Linguistics Program
> > +1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
> > +1 (313) 577-8621 (English/Linguistics)
> >
> > ----- "Paul Johnston" wrote:
> >
> >> From: "Paul Johnston"
> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:25:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> Eastern
> >> Subject: Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
> >>
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Paul Johnston
> >> Subject: Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Strictly speaking, these are combinations of t-l, but, except for
> the
> >> last three in rapid speech (where you just might get the affricate
> >> Geoffrey is talking about), they involve different places within
> the
> >> syllable for the /l/. In bottle, etc., the /l/ (usually a dark,
> >> velarized one) is the PEAK of the syllable--the usual place for a
> >> vowel. The /t/ before it is an alveolar flap, not quite a /d/, but
> >> voiced like one, closer to a Spanish intervocalic single r. In the
> >> other 3 cases you mention, the /l/ is in the onset of the
> syllable.
> >> The /t/ before it is a regular /t/, most of the time, probably
> >> unreleased. In the /tl/ combinations mentioned here, the whole
> sound
> >> is best looked at as an affricate, a stop where you give it a
> lateral
> >> release by dropping the sides of the tongue after alveolar
> contact--
> >> and has more characteristics of a single sound, the way /tS/ is in
> >> English. As I say, in rapid speech, this sound is a possibility in
> >> bootlicker, antler, ant lion, but not in the others. In Icelandic,
> >> it came historically from a long voiceless /l/ (pre-aspirated?),
> in
> >> turn from a long voiced /l/ (final sonorants devoiced in Old
> >> Icelandic), as the spelling shows.
> >>
> >> Paul Johnston
> >> On Apr 22, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Victor Steinbok wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: Victor Steinbok
> >>> Subject: Re: Eyjafjallajokull from an icelander
> >>>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ---------
> >>>
> >>> Without suggesting error, I would like an explanation of bottle,
> >>> throttle, mettle, cattle, settle, kettle, little, mantle, subtle
> >> and
> >>> boot-licker, antler, ant-lion--and, for good measure, metal,
> petal,
> >>> portal. US might be closer to [d] in most of these (not
> >> boot-licker,
> >>> antler, ant-lion or mantle, and no US variant for little, for
> some
> >>> reason), but OED says [t] for British. And mantle, little and
> >> subtle
> >>> have both schwa and non-schwa variants.
> >>>
> >>> VS-)
> >>>
> >>> On 4/22/2010 11:48 AM, Geoffrey Nathan wrote:
> >>>> ... Since the combination of t-l is impossible in English,
> native
> >>>> speakers find it hard to deal with, especially at the beginning
> or
> >>>> ending of a word.
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
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> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
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