how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)

Fri Apr 30 01:30:28 UTC 2010

What about "extreme" "expect" extraordinary.  These would be "ks" not "gs", no?  But according to "law" should they not be "ks" but "gs" because they are followed by a stressed syllable (like ~egzzakt)?  Lots of exceptions to the "law", no?

Anyway, back to the topic.  I'll be changing the short i for "ex" to short e in the truespel conversion database.  That's the way it's done in USA as I hear it.  Hope that's agreeable to all.

As Jay Leno says ~egzzaktlee  or ~egzzaklee

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Geoffrey Nathan
> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Verner's Law (something anyone who has taken even one introductory course in Linguistics usually learns about) deals not with vowels but with _consonants_. Although it applied to the change from Proto-Indo-European to Germanic, its effects are visible (or it's reapplying--your choice) in the examples cited.
>
> From Wikipedia:
>
> "Verner's law, stated by Karl Verner in 1875, describes a historical sound change in the Proto-Germanic language whereby voiceless fricatives *f, *þ, *s, *h (including *hʷ ), when immediately following an unstressed syllable in the same word, underwent voicing and became respectively the fricatives *b, *d, *z, *g (and *gʷ)." (Verner's Law entry, 1st Para.)
>
>
>
> Geoffrey S. Nathan
> Faculty Liaison, C&IT
> and Associate Professor, Linguistics Program
> +1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
> +1 (313) 577-8621 (English/Linguistics)
>
> ----- "Tom Zurinskas" wrote:
>
>> From: "Tom Zurinskas"
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:27:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Looks like we're breaking Verner's Law here in the US. We're not
>> saying ~igzzam for "exam" and ~igzzakt for "exact". I'm hearing
>> ~egzzam and ~egzzakt.
>>
>> As Jay Leno would say ~egzzaktlee.
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Geoff Nathan
>>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> I guess being one of the resident phonologists I'd better jump in
>> now with some elementary phonology.
>>>
>>> The pronunciation of the prefix spelled 'ex-' is determined in part
>> by whether it is stressed. If it is stressed it is pronounced with the
>> lax mid front vowel (as in 'bet'). So 'excellent, exercise, execute'.
>> If unstressed it varies between lax mid (bet) and lax high front (as
>> in 'bit') depending on formal/casual, dialect, and many other things.
>> Since there is no rule for this there can be no standardized
>> transcription. Hence the varying transcriptions for 'excite, excel,
>> exactly...'
>>> Note, however, that there is a rule about whether the 'x' is
>> pronounced /ks/ or /gz/. If the syllable preceding it is stressed it's
>> voiceless (ks) but if the following syllable is stressed it is voiced
>> (gz). The exceptions are those words spelled with -xc- . Hence
>> 'excite, excel' but 'exact, exam'.
>>> (Esoteric note for historical linguists--the latter principle is
>> actually Verner's Law.)
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> Geoffrey S. Nathan
>>> Faculty Liaison, C&IT
>>> and Associate Professor, Linguistics Program
>>> +1 (313) 577-1259 (C&IT)
>>> +1 (313) 577-8621 (English/Linguistics)
>>>
>>> ----- "Tom Zurinskas" wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: "Tom Zurinskas"
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:00:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>> Eastern
>>>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> You can hear 'em at thefreedictionary.com. Click on the flags for
>>>> audio. On second listening I hear the first "e" in excess more
>> like
>>>> an ~e (as in "bet") than an ~a. Certainly it's an ~a (as in "hat")
>>>> for "access". Having listened to a bunch of words with "ex"
>> prefixes
>>>> I thought the "e" in "excess" seemed different trending toward ~a
>>>> rather than ~e.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>>>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC"
>>>>> Subject: Re: how is the prefix "ex" really spoken (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>
>>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~aks was the pronunciation for both USA and UK for one word,
>>>> "excess"
>>>>>> ~akses
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How was "access" pronounced? The same as "excess"?
>>>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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