push comes to shove (UNCLASSIFIED)

Sat Feb 27 00:46:42 UTC 2010

Years ago, I came across a book with a title like

Lexicon of the Dialect of the South(ern) Alabama Negro.

I recall being surprised to discover that this work specified the phrase

"when push come(s) to shove, he must move"

as something peculiar to the speech of local 'Bama negroes.

Yet, in all the years that I've been posting here, I have yet to find
the slightest trace of any book with this or any such similar title
*anywhere*, though I have a clear, mental picture of where this work
is/was? located in Widener Library and, the (reprinted)work being
still in print at the time, I even bought a copy of it, which copy now
seems to have vanished into thin air.

Bill's cite, though from Georgia, speaking of dropping to negro
philosophy, etc. reassures me that I'm not living in some kind of
dream. For technical reasons - cataloging as a "monographic series -
the possible title is of no help. I need the name of the series and
the number and date of the volume, as though I wanted to find an issue
of a learned journal. I can't simply look the book up in the Harvard
College Library's online catalog.

Back in the day, when this stuff was done by hand, some [...] tried to
get me to find a particular volume of the Time-Life History of WWII,
also cataloged as a monographic series, yet he knew not the number or
the date of the volume that he wanted. He called long-distance from
the Cape at least thirty times to ask the impossible, when he probably
could have found the book that he wanted at his local library, without
hassling us. He felt that he was being given the runaround because he
wasn't an "alumni." If you might give Harvard money, nobody cares
whether you're an alumni. So, we always made it a point to kiss any
ass presented to us. Youneverknow.

-Wilson

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
<Bill.Mullins at us.army.mil> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject:      Re: push comes to shove (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> And more, from 19th Cent Newspapers:
>
> _Macon Telegraph_ 2/13/1897 p 4 col 3
> "But, "if pinch [sic] comes to shove," as old Sol [??? --garbled] was
> wont to say, will these gentlemen put on the habilaments [sic] of war
> and prove "more than a match" for British ironclads or Spanish
> machetes?"
>
> _Macon Telegraph_ 2/28/1898, p 4 col 2
> "When "push comes to shove" will editors of the Yellow Kid organs
> enlist?"
> ["The Yellow Kid", a seminal newspaper cartoon, was syndicated by the
> Hearst Syndicate.  Hearst promoted US entry into the Spanish-American
> war.]
>
>
> _Macon Telegraph_ 10/6/1898, p 20 col 2
> "To drop to negro philosophy, "when push comes to shove he must move." "
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:45 PM
>> To: 'American Dialect Society'
>> Subject: RE: push comes to shove (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> The _Macon [GA] Telegraph_ 9/10/1899, p. 8 col 3 has a letter to the
>> editor (written 9/9/1899) entitled "Push Comes to Shove" (seen in
>> Newsbank Historical Newspapers).  The letter bemoans the fact that
>> areas formerly populated by whites are now populated by blacks -- the
>> whites have been pushed out.
>>
>> Also:
>>
>> _Macon Telegraph_ 11/6/1916 p 4 col 5
>> "When the push comes to a shove, and the getting-off point is reached,
>> I don't think the State need strangle on caught breath if the Governor
>> runs in a dark horse -- "a rank outsider," so to speak."
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>> > Behalf Of Benjamin Zimmer
>> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:14 AM
>> > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> > Subject: push comes to shove (1924)
>> >
>> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -------------
>> --
>> > --------
>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>> > Subject:      push comes to shove (1924)
>> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> > --------
>> >
>> > The latest OED draft entry for "push" has "if/when push comes to
>> > shove" from 1940. Some earlier cites (the first three are from "The
>> > Week," by Defender columnist Roscoe Simmons):
>> >
>> > ---
>> > 1924 _Chicago Defender_ 9 Aug. II1/2 "Defense day," backed by
>> > President Coolidge, will be used to show you what you could do in a
>> > pinch and, also, to show Europe what Uncle Sam can do if push comes
>> to
>> > shove.
>> > ---
>> > 1924 _Chicago Defender_ 4 Oct. II1/2 Hope that this matter will blow
>> > over, but if push comes to shove and you are called, don't make a
>> > mistake.
>> > ---
>> > 1926 _Chicago Defender_ 20 Feb. II1/2 He may even give the register
>> of
>> > the treasury to some dark American if push comes to shove.
>> > ---
>> > 1932 _Chicago Defender_ 23 Jan. 14/2 Indeed, American sailors, like
>> > all Americans, are tough on ladies, all outside of their "race"
>> first,
>> > and then their own if push comes to shove, at sea, on land, home or
>> > abroad.
>> > ---
>> > 1935 Arna Bontemps _Black Thunder_ 53 And, let push come to shove,
> He
>> > going to fight them down like a flock of pant'ers, He is.
>> > http://books.google.com/books?id=z3wGAQAAIAAJ
>> > ---
>> > 1937 _Atlanta Daily World_ 9 Mar. 2/6 It would be better, when push
>> > comes to shove, for you to put all of them out and after they are
> out
>> > a little while and realize what it is all about, they will be glad
> to
>> > come back and be good.
>> > ---
>> >
>> > And M.J. Devaney sends this one along:
>> >
>> > ---
>> > 1931 _Baltimore Sun_ 5 Dec. 36 "It's got to be one or two [whites],
>> > but if push come to shove, they're not going to do no better'n keep
>> > quiet." (in: "Mob Took Negro from Her Custody," quoting Snow Holden
>> > from the Eastern Shore of Maryland, regarding the inability of
> blacks
>> > to trust whites in the wake of the Matthew Williams lynching in
> 1931)
>> > ---
>> >
>> >
>> > --Ben Zimmer
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
-Wilson
–––
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"––a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
–Mark Twain

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