:-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"

Sun Jan 17 00:38:37 UTC 2010

I can accept that, as long as I don't have to move much beyond that
atom of Niels Bohr.  Some years ago the late physicist Heinz Pagels
titled consecutive chapters of The Cosmic Code "The Atom of Niels
Bohr" and "The Atom of Bohr Kneels."  One can only admire writing like
that, and appreciate the clarity wiht which he wrote about very
complex topics for a general audience.

Herb

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: :-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Technical terms are useful for specialists, but the specialist voice
> (whoever ir may belong to) on NPR has less than two minutes to make a point
> which, to judge from the attention the Reid story has received, is
> extraordinarily subtle.  Nor is it amenable to empirical proof. ("You can't
> prove it either way. It's subjective.")
>
> Speaking personally, if I have to be dumbed down to once in a while so I can
> actually understand something starnge and complicated (rather than just be
> reminded I didn't understand in the first place) - well, then, dumb it down.
>
>
> JL
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
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>> Poster:       Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: :-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> While I agree that a general audience would have trouble with some of
>> our jargon, we have these terms and make these distinctions for good
>> reasons.  The public will understand better what we do if we use some
>> of these terms and explain them than if we try to talk around them.  I
>> haven't studied chemistry since high school, but I appreciate it that
>> chemists talk about valence rather than about "ways that atoms fit
>> together."  I like it that other specialists don't dumb things down
>> for me more than necessary.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Jonathan Lighter
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> > Subject:      Re: :-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > For the average NPR listener, still anxious about split infinitives, I
>> think
>> > even "register" is opaque. It always makes me think of cash registers,
>> > relevance zilch.
>> >
>> > How about "context," "purpose," "setting," or the like. These can be
>> > elaborated quickly and easily.
>> >
>> > JL
>> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu
>> >wrote:
>> >
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>> >> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> >> Subject:      Re: :-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"
>> >>
>> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> At 9:01 PM -0500 1/15/10, Robin Hamilton wrote:
>> >> >>Register?  Not nearly as clear as "dialect" =20
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Tom Zurinskas=2C USA - CT20=2C TN3=2C NJ33=2C FL7+=20
>> >> >>see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>> >> >
>> >> >Perhaps not so clear, but more appropriate in this context.
>> >>
>> >> Oops, sorry Robin.  I should have scrolled down in my mailer to see
>> >> that you pre-empted my response.
>> >>
>> >> LH
>> >>
>> >> >"In linguistics, a register is a variety of a language used for a
>> >> particular
>> >> >purpose or in a particular social setting. For example, an English
>> speaker
>> >> >may adhere more closely to prescribed grammar, pronounce words ending
>> >> >in -ing with a velar nasal instead of an alveolar nasal (e.g.
>> "walking",
>> >> not
>> >> >"walkin'"), choose more formal words (e.g. train vs. choo-choo, sodium
>> >> >chloride vs. salt, child vs. kid, etc.), and refrain from using the
>> word
>> >> >ain't when speaking in a formal setting, but the same person could
>> violate
>> >> >all of these prescriptions in an informal setting."
>> >> >[WIKI]
>> >> >
>> >> >Whereas dialect:
>> >> >
>> >> >"The term dialect (from the Greek word _dialektos_) is used in two
>> >> >distinct ways, even by scholars of language. One usage refers to a
>> variety
>> >> >of a language that is characteristic of a particular group of the
>> >> language's
>> >> >speakers. The term is applied most often to regional speech patterns,
>> but
>> >> a
>> >> >dialect may also be defined by other factors, such as social class.
>> <...>
>> >> >The other usage refers to a language socially subordinate to a regional
>> or
>> >> >national standard language, often historically cognate to the standard,
>> >> but
>> >> >not a variety of it or in any other sense derived from it."
>> >> >[WIKI]
>> >> >
>> >> >They are quite distinct terms, at least in my idiolect.
>> >> >
>> >> >Robin Hamilton
>> >> >
>> >> >>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> >>>Poster: Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at BTINTERNET.COM>
>> >> >>>Subject: Re: :-) mostly -- McWhorter on "standard English"
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>  > Well=2C maybe we need to start putting "dialect" in after
>> "Standard
>> >> >>>>  English". I think I might start putting "Standard American Written
>> >> >>>>  English dialect" in my composition syllabus to emphasize its
>> >> >>>>  linguistic parity with Appalachian dialects=2C Southern
>> dialects=2C
>> >> >>>>  etc=
>> >> >>.
>> >> >>>  >
>> >> >>>>  ---Amy West
>> >> >>>=20
>> >> >>>I'd concur with this=2C Amy=2C but reword as "Standard American
>> Written
>> >> >>>E=
>> >> >>nglish
>> >> >>>Register."
>> >> >>>=20
>> >> >>>The wording of the syllabus description would=2C of course=2C be
>> >> >>>self-referential=2C being written in SAWER.
>> >> >>>=20
>> >> >>>Robin Hamilton
>> >> >>>=20
>> >> >
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>> truth."
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>
>
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> "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."
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