Omission of definite article

Tue Jan 19 15:17:55 UTC 2010

In the southern U.S., I can say both "in bed" and "in the bed"--but not quite synonymously.  The distinction bears further pondering . . . .

--Charlie

---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:40:33 -0500
>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>)
>
>However, "in the bed" is very common in the southern U.S, where "in bed" might be the norm in other places.
>
>Bill Palmer

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charles Doyle" <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:32 AM>
>
>> And then there's the construction "at table." I have heard Americans use it, but only ones whom I suspect of Anglophiliac leanings.
>>
>> "In bed," however, is perfectly loyal American (as long as multiple unmarried persons are not involved).
>>
>> --Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:07:58 +0000
>>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
>>>Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>)
>>>Subject: Re: Omission of definite article >
>>>Mark, that's a good point, and I also noted that the relative "permanence"
>>>of one's stay at each institution seems to have an effect on whether "the"
>>>is omitted or used. "In prison" is a fairly permanent state, as is "in
>>>school," as one usually spends the first 20 years of life in some kind of
>>>school. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
>>>
>>>ks
>>>
>>>On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Note that all of these are institutions, and the phrase refers to
>>>> specific
>>>> type of assocation with them. When someone's sick they are "in hospital"
>>>> (UK) or "in the hospital" (usual US); but if you go to visit them there
>>>> you
>>>> are "at the hospital", and if there's a call for the patient's doctor,
>>>> it's
>>>> "Is Dr. ___ in the hospital?"
>>>>
>>>> We use the same construction in "in college" and "in school", and I
>>>> believe
>>>> in the UK they say "in (or at?) university".
>>>>
>>>> Mark Mandel
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Thanks, Jonathan. That's sort of what I had discovered as well. I did
>>>> > a
>>>> > little assignment on that subject, and your summary is in keeping with
>>>> > my
>>>> > questionnaire's findings.
>>>> >
>>>> > ks
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>>>> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> > > -----------------------
>>>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> > > Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Welcome, Kelli. And yes, some have noticed.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I can't say just when I began to note the replacement of "in the
>>>> > hospital"
>>>> > > by "in hospital" on cable news, but it's been a few years.  "In
>>>> > > future"
>>>> > may
>>>> > > be more frequent. Yet "out of hospital" still sounds very UK.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The changeover is not very far advanced, though, even among the
>>>> > chattering
>>>> > > classes, and I'd still be surprised to hear anyone beyond the media
>>>> > > or
>>>> > > lacking a strong British-Irish connection omit the article.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I almost said "Anglo-Irish," which sounds fine to me, but I didn't
>>>> > > want
>>>> > to
>>>> > > offend any Scots, Welsh, or Manx readers, for example.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > JL
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> > > > -----------------------
>>>> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> > > > Poster:       Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> > > > Subject:      Omission of definite article
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Hi all!
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I'm a M.Phil student of Linguistics at Trinity College Dublin and
>>>> just
>>>> > > > joined the list serve a few days ago.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > It's been entertaining following the various conversations, and
>>>> > > > I'd
>>>> > love
>>>> > > to
>>>> > > > hear your feedback on a little question of my own...
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I've noticed that the British and Irish press, as well as speakers
>>>> > > > in
>>>> > > > casual
>>>> > > > conversation, use the phrase "in hospital," effectively omitting
>>>> > > > the
>>>> > > > definite article, much the way we would say someone is "in prison"
>>>> > > > or
>>>> > "in
>>>> > > > jail," while Americans would more generally say someone is "in
>>>> > > > *the*hospital.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Is the US press beginning to drop "the" as well? What about
>>>> > > > citizens
>>>> in
>>>> > > > casual speech? What have you all noticed?
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Thanks in advance for your musings.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Regards,
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Kelli Slimp
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>> > truth."
>>>> > >
>>
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