Omission of definite article

Tue Jan 19 16:41:18 UTC 2010

Among or within American dialects, we also find variability between "catch cold" (or "take cold") and "catch a cold."

But it's "catch flu" vs. "catch the flu." Why is "flu" more difinite than "cold"?  How about other maladies?

--Charlie

---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:40:48 +0000
>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>)
>Subject: Re: Omission of definite article>
>Thanks Heather, Charles and Bill!
>
>Charles, your "in the bed" got me thinking....
>
>I've also noted that here in Ireland, speakers will add almost superfluous "the's." My friends routinely say they have "the hunger" when they're hungry and are often afraid of catching "the cold." In Irish, one doesn't have a cold, but a cold is "on" them. Does this suggest that situations like cold and hunger are outside forces that attack one's body, instead of the AmE idea that cold and hunger develop in one's body?
>
>hmmm....
>
>ks
>
>On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> In the southern U.S., I can say both "in bed" and "in the bed"--but not
>> quite synonymously.  The distinction bears further pondering . . . .
>>
>> --Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>> >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:40:33 -0500
>> >From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
>> Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>)
>> >
>> >However, "in the bed" is very common in the southern U.S, where "in bed"
>> might be the norm in other places.
>> >
>> >Bill Palmer
>>
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Charles Doyle" <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>> >To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:32 AM>
>> >
>> >> And then there's the construction "at table." I have heard Americans use
>> it, but only ones whom I suspect of Anglophiliac leanings.
>> >>
>> >> "In bed," however, is perfectly loyal American (as long as multiple
>> unmarried persons are not involved).
>> >>
>> >> --Charlie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---- Original message ----
>> >>>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:07:58 +0000
>> >>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
>> >>>Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>)
>> >>>Subject: Re: Omission of definite article >
>> >>>Mark, that's a good point, and I also noted that the relative
>> "permanence"
>> >>>of one's stay at each institution seems to have an effect on whether
>> "the"
>> >>>is omitted or used. "In prison" is a fairly permanent state, as is "in
>> >>>school," as one usually spends the first 20 years of life in some kind
>> of
>> >>>school. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
>> >>>
>> >>>ks
>> >>>
>> >>>On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>> -----------------------
>> >>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>>> Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>>> Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Note that all of these are institutions, and the phrase refers to
>> >>>> specific
>> >>>> type of assocation with them. When someone's sick they are "in
>> hospital"
>> >>>> (UK) or "in the hospital" (usual US); but if you go to visit them
>> there
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> are "at the hospital", and if there's a call for the patient's doctor,
>> >>>> it's
>> >>>> "Is Dr. ___ in the hospital?"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We use the same construction in "in college" and "in school", and I
>> >>>> believe
>> >>>> in the UK they say "in (or at?) university".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mark Mandel
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > Thanks, Jonathan. That's sort of what I had discovered as well. I
>> did
>> >>>> > a
>> >>>> > little assignment on that subject, and your summary is in keeping
>> with
>> >>>> > my
>> >>>> > questionnaire's findings.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > ks
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>> >>>> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>> > > -----------------------
>> >>>> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>>> > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>>> > > Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > Welcome, Kelli. And yes, some have noticed.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > I can't say just when I began to note the replacement of "in the
>> >>>> > hospital"
>> >>>> > > by "in hospital" on cable news, but it's been a few years.  "In
>> >>>> > > future"
>> >>>> > may
>> >>>> > > be more frequent. Yet "out of hospital" still sounds very UK.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > The changeover is not very far advanced, though, even among the
>> >>>> > chattering
>> >>>> > > classes, and I'd still be surprised to hear anyone beyond the
>> media
>> >>>> > > or
>> >>>> > > lacking a strong British-Irish connection omit the article.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > I almost said "Anglo-Irish," which sounds fine to me, but I didn't
>> >>>> > > want
>> >>>> > to
>> >>>> > > offend any Scots, Welsh, or Manx readers, for example.
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > JL
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Kelli Slimp <
>> kellislimp at gmail.com>
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>>> > > > -----------------------
>> >>>> > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >>>> > > > Poster:       Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>
>> >>>> > > > Subject:      Omission of definite article
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Hi all!
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > I'm a M.Phil student of Linguistics at Trinity College Dublin
>> and
>> >>>> just
>> >>>> > > > joined the list serve a few days ago.
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > It's been entertaining following the various conversations, and
>> >>>> > > > I'd
>> >>>> > love
>> >>>> > > to
>> >>>> > > > hear your feedback on a little question of my own...
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > I've noticed that the British and Irish press, as well as
>> speakers
>> >>>> > > > in
>> >>>> > > > casual
>> >>>> > > > conversation, use the phrase "in hospital," effectively omitting
>> >>>> > > > the
>> >>>> > > > definite article, much the way we would say someone is "in
>> prison"
>> >>>> > > > or
>> >>>> > "in
>> >>>> > > > jail," while Americans would more generally say someone is "in
>> >>>> > > > *the*hospital.
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Is the US press beginning to drop "the" as well? What about
>> >>>> > > > citizens
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> > > > casual speech? What have you all noticed?
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Thanks in advance for your musings.
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Regards,
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > Kelli Slimp
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > > --
>> >>>> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
>> the
>> >>>> > truth."
>> >>>> > >
>> >>
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