Omission of definite article

Laurence Horn laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Tue Jan 19 16:41:13 UTC 2010 

At 10:17 AM -0500 1/19/10, Charles Doyle wrote:
>In the southern U.S., I can say both "in bed" and "in the bed"--but
>not quite synonymously.  The distinction bears further pondering . .
>. .
>
>--Charlie

Is it different than for northerners?  For me, and I suspect lots of
the others, "The dog is in the bed" is fine, but "The dog is in bed"
is natural only if it's a doggie bed (available at a modest cost from
L. L. Bean).

LH
>
>
>---- Original message ----
>>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:40:33 -0500
>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf
>>of Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>)
>>
>>However, "in the bed" is very common in the southern U.S, where "in
>>bed" might be the norm in other places.
>>
>>Bill Palmer
>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Charles Doyle" <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>>To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:32 AM>
>>
>>>  And then there's the construction "at table." I have heard
>>>Americans use it, but only ones whom I suspect of Anglophiliac
>>>leanings.
>>>
>>>  "In bed," however, is perfectly loyal American (as long as
>>>multiple unmarried persons are not involved).
>>>
>>>  --Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ---- Original message ----
>>>>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:07:58 +0000
>>>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
>>>>Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>)
>>>>Subject: Re: Omission of definite article >
>>>>Mark, that's a good point, and I also noted that the relative "permanence"
>>>>of one's stay at each institution seems to have an effect on whether "the"
>>>>is omitted or used. "In prison" is a fairly permanent state, as is "in
>>>>school," as one usually spends the first 20 years of life in some kind of
>>>>school. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
>>>>
>>>>ks
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  -----------------------
>>>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>  Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>  Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>  Note that all of these are institutions, and the phrase refers to
>>>>>  specific
>>>>>  type of assocation with them. When someone's sick they are "in hospital"
>>>>>  (UK) or "in the hospital" (usual US); but if you go to visit them there
>>>>>  you
>>>>>  are "at the hospital", and if there's a call for the patient's doctor,
>>>>>  it's
>>>>>  "Is Dr. ___ in the hospital?"
>>>>>
>>>>>  We use the same construction in "in college" and "in school", and I
>>>>>  believe
>>>>>  in the UK they say "in (or at?) university".
>>>>>
>>>>>  Mark Mandel
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  > Thanks, Jonathan. That's sort of what I had discovered as well. I did
>>>>>  > a
>>>>>  > little assignment on that subject, and your summary is in keeping with
>>>>>  > my
>>>>>  > questionnaire's findings.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > ks
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>  > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  > > -----------------------
>>>>>  > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>  > > Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>  > > Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > Welcome, Kelli. And yes, some have noticed.
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > I can't say just when I began to note the replacement of "in the
>>>>>  > hospital"
>>>>>  > > by "in hospital" on cable news, but it's been a few years.  "In
>>>>>  > > future"
>>>>>  > may
>>>>>  > > be more frequent. Yet "out of hospital" still sounds very UK.
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > The changeover is not very far advanced, though, even among the
>  >>>> > chattering
>>>>>  > > classes, and I'd still be surprised to hear anyone beyond the media
>>>>>  > > or
>>>>>  > > lacking a strong British-Irish connection omit the article.
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > I almost said "Anglo-Irish," which sounds fine to me, but I didn't
>>>>>  > > want
>>>>>  > to
>>>>>  > > offend any Scots, Welsh, or Manx readers, for example.
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > JL
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
>>>>>  > wrote:
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  > > > -----------------------
>>>>>  > > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>  > > > Poster:       Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>  > > > Subject:      Omission of definite article
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > Hi all!
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > I'm a M.Phil student of Linguistics at Trinity College Dublin and
>>>>>  just
>>>>>  > > > joined the list serve a few days ago.
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > It's been entertaining following the various conversations, and
>>>>>  > > > I'd
>>>>>  > love
>>>>>  > > to
>>>>>  > > > hear your feedback on a little question of my own...
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > I've noticed that the British and Irish press, as well as speakers
>>>>>  > > > in
>>>>>  > > > casual
>>>>>  > > > conversation, use the phrase "in hospital," effectively omitting
>>>>>  > > > the
>>>>>  > > > definite article, much the way we would say someone is "in prison"
>>>>>  > > > or
>>>>>  > "in
>>>>>  > > > jail," while Americans would more generally say someone is "in
>>>>>  > > > *the*hospital.
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > Is the US press beginning to drop "the" as well? What about
>>>>>  > > > citizens
>>>>>  in
>>>>>  > > > casual speech? What have you all noticed?
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > Thanks in advance for your musings.
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > Regards,
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > Kelli Slimp
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>  > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > >
>>>>>  > > --
>>>>>  > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the
>>>>>  > truth."
>>>>>  > >
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
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>
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