Omission of definite article

Wed Jan 20 13:39:44 UTC 2010

"The measles" sounds normal to me. Also "the mumps."
Also "the whooping cough."

But I think TV news has almost completely dropped the article.

JL
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Margaret Lee <mlee303 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Margaret Lee <mlee303 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Omission of definite article
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've also heard older black speakers say "I have the headache."
>
> Margaret Lee
>
> =A0
> --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> From: Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Omission of definite article
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 3:40 PM
>
>
> Thanks Heather, Charles and Bill!
>
> Charles, your "in the bed" got me thinking....
>
> I've also noted that here in Ireland, speakers will add almost superfluous
> "the's." My friends routinely say they have "the hunger" when they're
> hungr=
> y
> and are often afraid of catching "the cold." In Irish, one doesn't have a
> cold, but a cold is "on" them. Does this suggest that situations like cold
> and hunger are outside forces that attack one's body, instead of the AmE
> idea that cold and hunger develop in one's body?
>
> hmmm....
>
> ks
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> > Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >
> > Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> > Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: Omission of definite article
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > In the southern U.S., I can say both "in bed" and "in the bed"--but not
> > quite synonymously.=A0 The distinction bears further pondering . . . .
> >
> > --Charlie
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:40:33 -0500
> > >From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
> > Bill Palmer <w_a_palmer at BELLSOUTH.NET>)
> > >
> > >However, "in the bed" is very common in the southern U.S, where "in bed"
> > might be the norm in other places.
> > >
> > >Bill Palmer
> >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Charles Doyle" <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> > >To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:32 AM>
> > >
>  > >> And then there's the construction "at table." I have heard Americans
> u=
> se
> > it, but only ones whom I suspect of Anglophiliac leanings.
> > >>
> > >> "In bed," however, is perfectly loyal American (as long as multiple
> > unmarried persons are not involved).
> > >>
> > >> --Charlie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---- Original message ----
> > >>>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:07:58 +0000
> > >>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of
> > >>>Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>)
> > >>>Subject: Re: Omission of definite article >
> > >>>Mark, that's a good point, and I also noted that the relative
> > "permanence"
> > >>>of one's stay at each institution seems to have an effect on whether
> > "the"
> > >>>is omitted or used. "In prison" is a fairly permanent state, as is "in
> > >>>school," as one usually spends the first 20 years of life in some kind
> > of
> > >>>school. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
> > >>>
> > >>>ks
> > >>>
> > >>>On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Mark Mandel <thnidu at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>>> -----------------------
> > >>>> Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA
> =
> .EDU>
> > >>>> Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
> > >>>> Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: Omission of definite article
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Note that all of these are institutions, and the phrase refers to
> > >>>> specific
> > >>>> type of assocation with them. When someone's sick they are "in
> > hospital"
> > >>>> (UK) or "in the hospital" (usual US); but if you go to visit them
> > there
> > >>>> you
> > >>>> are "at the hospital", and if there's a call for the patient's
> docto=
> r,
> > >>>> it's
> > >>>> "Is Dr. ___ in the hospital?"
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We use the same construction in "in college" and "in school", and I
> > >>>> believe
> > >>>> in the UK they say "in (or at?) university".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Mark Mandel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > Thanks, Jonathan. That's sort of what I had discovered as well. I
> > did
> > >>>> > a
> > >>>> > little assignment on that subject, and your summary is in keeping
> > with
> > >>>> > my
> > >>>> > questionnaire's findings.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > ks
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Lighter
> > >>>> > <wuxxmupp2000 at gmail.com>wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>>> > > -----------------------
> > >>>> > > Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV
> =
> .UGA.EDU <http://uga.edu/>>
> > >>>> > > Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Jonathan Lighter <
> wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM=
> >
> > >>>> > > Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: Omission of definite article
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > Welcome, Kelli. And yes, some have noticed.
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > I can't say just when I began to note the replacement of "in the
> > >>>> > hospital"
> > >>>> > > by "in hospital" on cable news, but it's been a few years.=A0
> "I=
> n
> > >>>> > > future"
> > >>>> > may
> > >>>> > > be more frequent. Yet "out of hospital" still sounds very UK.
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > The changeover is not very far advanced, though, even among the
> > >>>> > chattering
> > >>>> > > classes, and I'd still be surprised to hear anyone beyond the
> > media
> > >>>> > > or
> > >>>> > > lacking a strong British-Irish connection omit the article.
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > I almost said "Anglo-Irish," which sounds fine to me, but I
> didn=
> 't
> > >>>> > > want
> > >>>> > to
> > >>>> > > offend any Scots, Welsh, or Manx readers, for example.
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > JL
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Kelli Slimp <
> > kellislimp at gmail.com>
> > >>>> > wrote:
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>>> > > > -----------------------
> > >>>> > > > Sender:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSE
> =
> RV.UGA.EDU <http://rv.uga.edu/>>
> > >>>> > > > Poster:=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0Kelli Slimp <kellislimp at GMAIL.COM>
> > >>>> > > > Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Omission of definite article
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > Hi all!
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > I'm a M.Phil student of Linguistics at Trinity College Dublin
> > and
> > >>>> just
> > >>>> > > > joined the list serve a few days ago.
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > It's been entertaining following the various conversations,
> an=
> d
> > >>>> > > > I'd
> > >>>> > love
> > >>>> > > to
> > >>>> > > > hear your feedback on a little question of my own...
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > I've noticed that the British and Irish press, as well as
> > speakers
> > >>>> > > > in
> > >>>> > > > casual
> > >>>> > > > conversation, use the phrase "in hospital," effectively
> omitti=
>  ng
> > >>>> > > > the
> > >>>> > > > definite article, much the way we would say someone is "in
> > prison"
> > >>>> > > > or
> > >>>> > "in
> > >>>> > > > jail," while Americans would more generally say someone is "in
> > >>>> > > > *the*hospital.
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > Is the US press beginning to drop "the" as well? What about
> > >>>> > > > citizens
> > >>>> in
> > >>>> > > > casual speech? What have you all noticed?
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > Thanks in advance for your musings.
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > Regards,
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > Kelli Slimp
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>>> > > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > >
> > >>>> > > --
> > >>>> > > "If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle
> > the
> > >>>> > truth."
> > >>>> > >
> > >>
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> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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"If the truth is half as bad as I think it is, you can't handle the truth."

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