Freud and chimney sweeping

Mon Jul 19 19:51:25 UTC 2010

At 7/19/2010 02:19 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>Freud to Jung, Nov. 21, 1909:
>
>"It has also been explained to me why a chimney sweep is regarded as a good
>omen: chimney sweeping is an action symbolic of coitus."

Great.  Will I find this in

_The Freud/Jung letters : the correspondence between Sigmund Freud
and C.G. Jung_ / edited by William McGuire ; translated by Ralph
Manheim and R.F.C. Hull.  Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard University
Press, 1988; reprinted from Princeton, N.J. : Princeton University Press, 1974?

Joel

>See, a *male* puts himself into a *dark channel-like place*.  The testicular
>cancer would be, to the unconscious, an ironic "punishment" for symbolically
>"doing it."
>
>Sense or SWAG? Seriously, you gotta wonder.
>
>JL
>
>On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Charles C Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: "get ones ashes hauled",              and sweeping ones
> > (or
> >              someones) chimney
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > In any case, wouldn't it be the building owner--not the chimny sweep--who
> > "got his ashes hauled" (in contrast to the young boy who hauled those
> > ashes)?
> >
> > --Charlie
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of
> > Charles C Doyle [cdoyle at UGA.EDU]
> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 11:42 AM
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Even though chimney sweeps commonly died, at an early age, of testicular
> > cancer . . . .
> >
> > --Charlie
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: American Dialect Society [ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] on behalf of
> > Jonathan Lighter [wuxxmupp2000 at GMAIL.COM]
> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 11:37 AM
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > "Get your ashes hauled" looks far more recent.  The sweepers must already
> > have had the reputation and Freud can tell you why.
> >
> > If it wasn't deserved.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Joel S. Berson <Berson at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
> > > Subject:      "get ones ashes hauled", and sweeping ones (or someones)
> > > chimney
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> >  > As a by-product of investigation into why chimney sweeps were
> > > associated in the 18th century with sexual activity, George Thompson
> > > brought up the metaphor "get ones ashes hauled".
> > >
> > > 1)  George provides some quotations below.
> > >
> > > 2)  There's also "get your broom dusted" and  "get your chimney swept
> > > out."  [Google hits, not documented below.]
> > >
> > > 3)  Is there anything in the etymology or history besides the
> > > (obvious?) image of "chimney" as either (or both) phallus and vagina?
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> > > >From: George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>
> > > >To: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at att.net>
> > > >Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:05:17 -0400
> > > >Subject: Re: Sexual meaning of chimney and chimney sweeps in the 18th
> > > >  century?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >See that spider : climbing up the wall
> > > >Hunt some place : to get his ashes hauled
> > > >Wiley Barner, 1927
> > > >
> > > >Lord when you see the spider : Lord a-running up and down the wall
> > > >He must be going somewhere : great God to try and have his ashes hauled
> > > >Frank Stokes, 1927
> > > >
> > > >and a half dozen from the 30s
> > > >
> > > >A concordance to Pre-War blues:
> > > >http://www.dylan61.se/taft.htm
> > > >
> > > >George A. Thompson
> > > >Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > > >Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at att.net>
> > > >Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010 11:10 am
> > > >Subject: Re: Sexual meaning of chimney and chimney sweeps in the
> > > >18th  century?
> > > >To: George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu>
> > > >
> > > > > At 7/17/2010 12:37 PM, George Thompson wrote:
> > > > > >Which is, to refer to an old expression I've only encountered in
> > > > > >blues lyrics: to get one's ashes hauled = to get laid.
> > > > >
> > > > > New to me.  I Googled "ashes hauled" -- and then added
> > > > > "chimney".  It's in slang and (the) urban dictionaries, there's
> > > > > speculation on its etymology, references to blues lyrics, and even
> > > > > the question "For example, what exactly happens when you get your
> > > > > "ashes hauled" or your "broom dusted"?" and the expression "Get your
> > > > > chimney swept out."
> > > > >
> > > > > Google Books has nothing earlier than 1981 ("Slang and euphemism: a
> > > > > dictionary of oaths, curses, insults, ...", No preview).
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything in this besides the (obvious?) "chimney" as either
> > > > > (both) phallus and vagina? Should we round up the usual suspects on
> > > > > ADS-L and propose a research project into the earliest appearance?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joel
> > > > >
> > >
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> >
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>
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