"wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tue Jul 20 20:09:51 UTC 2010

I would think that "wh" would suffice in notation to indicate a "voiceless w" as well as a "hw".  I've always assumed "~hw indicated an ~h before a ~w.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
see truespel.com phonetic spelling

>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Paul Johnston
> Subject: Re: "wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's usually simply a voiceless "w" among people who have it in the
> States, as far as I know.
>
> Paul Johnston
>
> On Jul 18, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>> Subject: Re: "wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I wonder. Is the aspiration when saying "wh" as ~hw at the lips
>> where the ~w is formed so the ~w is unvoiced, or at the back in the
>> throat where ~h is formed? If it's at the lips, that would make it
>> an aspirated unvoiced ~w rather than a ~h followed by a ~w.
>>
>>
>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC"
>>> Subject: Re: "wh" words - was "no subject" (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> I guess I'm in the minority, then, because I pronounce most of them
>>> with
>>> a "hw" instead of a "w".
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
>>>> Behalf Of Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:08 PM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: "wh" words - was "no subject"
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> ---------------
>>>> --------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: "wh" words - was "no subject"
>>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> All the following words beginning with "wh" are said to be
>>>> pronounced
>>>> ~hw in first pronunciation in the McMillan Dictionary for Children
>>>> 2001, then as ~w in second pronunciation.
>>>>
>>>> whack
>>>> whale
>>>> whaling
>>>> wharf
>>>> what
>>>> whatever
>>>> wheat
>>>> wheel
>>>> wheelbarrow
>>>> wheelchair
>>>> wheeze
>>>> whelk
>>>> when
>>>> whenever
>>>> where
>>>> whereabouts
>>>> whereas
>>>> whereupon
>>>> wherever
>>>> whey
>>>> which
>>>> whichever
>>>> whiff
>>>> while
>>>> whim
>>>> whimper
>>>> whine
>>>> whinny
>>>> whip
>>>> whippoowill
>>>> whir
>>>> whirl
>>>> whirlpool
>>>> whirlwind
>>>> whisk
>>>> whisker
>>>> whiskey
>>>> whistle
>>>> white
>>>> whiten
>>>> whitewash
>>>> whittle
>>>> whiz
>>>> whoa
>>>> why
>>>>
>>>> thefreedictionary.com also gives ~hw as first pronunciation for
>>>> these
>>>> words in their notation, but listening to the pronunciation I don't
>>>> hear it. "Wheat, which, whip, whisk" spoken at the clickable
>>>> "icon" I
>>>> believe have ~hw, but the speakers at the US and UK clickable
>>>> flags do
>>>> not for any of these words.
>>>>
>>>> I think that folks that say ~hw for these words are in the vast
>>>> minority, and ~hw should be 2nd pronunciation if it's still spoken
>>>> at
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL7+
>>>> see truespel.com phonetic spelling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -------------
>>>> ----------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----------
>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine "whoa" as "hwoa"
>>>>>
>>>>> Or "who" as "hwo"
>>>>>
>>>>> Self continues to be the measure of all things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back in 1961, I got into a shouting match with a barracksmate from
>>>>> Cincinnat[@] who'd more-or-less rhetorically asked,
>>>>>
>>>>> "You ever notice that, in words that start with wh-, like "[w]at,"
>>>> the
>>>>> -h- is never pronounced?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Say *[hw]at*?!!! That was one of the most ignorant remarks that I'd
>>>>> ever heard! [w]y, I knew people in *Saint Louis* from Cincinnat[@]
>>>> and
>>>>> they didn't be saying any "[w]at"! (Even though they did say
>>>>> "Missour[@]." But that was okay. My Texan grandmother used
>>>>> "Missour[@]," too.) They pronounced it the *right* way: "[hw]at"!
>>>> Just
>>>>> as *I* did!
>>>>>
>>>>> As Stewie (cf. The Family Man) says, "Will [hw]eaton."
>>>>>
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>> ---
>>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"--a strange complaint
>>>> to
>>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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