Dialects of poetry (Old Norse, Middle English, Shakespearean, etc.)

[Herb Stahlke]

In my experience most audience members are unaware of the
distinctions.  They follow the libretto if they're interested or
simply enjoy the music.  One of the most difficult things for a choir
to do is to produce lyrics intelligibly in any language.  Only a few
very good choirs succeed at this.  And the larger the choir the less
the likelihood of clear lyrics.

Herb

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Dialects of poetry (Old Norse, Middle English, Shakespearean,
>              etc.)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And there's still no "authenticity" in the artistic experience, because what the audience will be responding to is quaint archaism or exotic foreignness.
>
> --Charlie
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:19:13 -0400
>>From: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> (on behalf of Herb Stahlke <hfwstahlke at GMAIL.COM>)>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>I've raised similar questions in choral diction discussions.  Period
>>performance goes to great lengths to emulate not only the kinds of
>>instruments and styles of playing used but also the temperaments, the
>>ensemble sizes, and other details--except for pronunciation.  If an
>>authentic period performance of Messiah uses early 17th c.
>>instruments, a chorus no more than 16, and counter-tenors, then why
>>not also use early 17th c. Dublin pronunciation?  When I've raised
>>this question on choral conducting lists, the response was that I was
>>trying to parody period performance, which sometimes needs parody, as
>>with Joshua Rifkin's performance of the Mass in B minor with a vocal
>>quintet.  A couple of years ago I served on a doctoral committee in
>>music performance.  The candidate was doing a period performance
>>manual to Cantata 150.  He had taken a few linguistics courses, so in
>>the course of his research and writing I encouraged him to look into
>>the question of pronunciation.  He researched it and contacted a
>>number of conductors who all insisted that the only pronunciation
>>acceptable in singing Bach was Modern High German choral diction,
>>which differs from spoken pronunciation largely in the use of an
>>alveolar trill rather than a uvular fricative for /r/.
>>
>>Oddly, while this is true for English and German texts, it's not for
>>Latin texts.  With a Latin text, the country of origin is important.
>>Carmina Burana is sung with Austro-German Latin pronunciation, the
>>Verdi Requiem with Roman, and contemporary Finnish compositions with
>>Latin texts in Finnish Latin pronunciation.  Choirs will be retrained
>>in Latin pronunciation for each variety.
>>
>>Herb
>>
>>On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Charles Doyle <cdoyle at uga.edu> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Dialects of poetry (Old Norse, Middle English, Shakespearean,
>>>              etc.)
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Related questions could be raised in still broader terms, with even a synchronic dimension: To what extent, when we read poetry (or prose), are we obliged to emulate the dialect of the poet--or "hear" the poetry that way in our minds? Do Yeats's verses need to sound Irish, Dylan Thomas's Welsh? Do Eliot's poems gain from sounding British (what dialect of British?) or Midwestern-American? Should one not proficient in a poet's dialect refrain from reading the poem at all?! What does a reader owe to the author? How far can the author--or the author's biographical circumstances--control the finished text?
>>>
>>> --Charlie
>
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